Borrowed Audiences, Big Results: How Michelle Schafer Grew from 1-on-1 Coach to Bestselling Author and Sought-After Speaker

7FL Michelle Schafer Full Video
Dustin: [00:00:00] What does it actually look like when a coach stops waiting to be discovered and starts choosing to be found? I'm really excited today to share with you an inside look at a spotlight light session that we did recently with one of our clients. So Michelle Schafer, just an amazing person as you're gonna hear in the session that follows.
Dustin: And we hosted a live event with Michelle and she was able to unpack her story and working over the past 18 months from a relatively unknown, career coach in a province of Canada to someone who has been on TV and grown her book of business and recently appeared on one of the largest podcasts in the world called Art of Charm.
Dustin: So the topic at hand is borrowed audiences, big results, how Michelle Schafer grew from a one-on-one coach to a bestselling author and sought after speaker. So please enjoy this inside. Look at Michelle's story and, I hope you, hope you have a lot of big takeaways and a lot of big insights. And most of all, I hope you see how [00:01:00] you have what it takes to be proactive and grow your business by sharing your authentic story and serving other people's audiences in a big way.
Dustin: I,
Intro: you are listening to the seven Figure Leap podcast. We're here to leverage rich relationships and smart strategies to take your business to the next level. Here's your host, Dustin Reman.
Dustin: Well welcome everyone. Really appreciate y'all being here. this is, this is something new that we're doing today.
Dustin: we're gonna do a spotlight session with one of our clients, one of my good friends, and someone that. walks the walk, I guess is the best way to say it. Someone that, entered my world in October of 2024. Michelle and I were talking, before we let everyone else in and hit record here that she joined our program, you'll probably hear like PPAA lot today.
Dustin: So podcast profits, accelerators, our program, there's a [00:02:00] lot of people on the call today that are part of that or are going to be part of that soon, which is exciting. We've got a lot of guests here as well. And we're also going to release this on our podcast as a client case study. So the idea today is to really shine the light on Michelle and listen to her story and understand sort of what has transpired in her business over the last 18 months or so, since, we started working together.
Dustin: And she has a really. Unique story, a really inspiring story. I'm working on a book right now, and, she's a key case study in the book. And I thought, well, why don't we have this conversation in front of other people so that you all can benefit from it, ask questions, and, hopefully, get some practical insights and breakthroughs for how you can grow your own business through borrowing other people's audiences and doing so really consistently.
Dustin: I think that is Michelle's secret sauce if I had to summarize it,in a few words. So, Michelle, thank you so much for being here. I think the best way to start is maybe just give us a snapshot of your business today, like who you serve and about your book and, the [00:03:00] recent appearance you had on a pretty big podcast.
Dustin: And then we'll kind of work back from there to the beginning and, unpack your story a little bit deeper.
Michelle: Absolutely. And I mean, Destin, thank you so much for the invitation to join everybody here today, and certainly for all of your support since we first met. And, welcome to everybody, definitely some familiar names and faces on the call today.
Michelle: And, great that you're able to join us. it's really interesting. I think my story is one of consistent light touches and, just to give you a bit of background, I, in terms of what I do, I'm a career coach, but really what I do is I help people bypass frustrating job search strategies in order to help them find.
Michelle: Work that gives them energy for companies that believe what they believe in. I mean, that's their why. I believe everybody is entitled to do that. And so I work, predominantly with individuals who have experienced job loss. There's a lot of that. I'm in Ottawa, Canada. There's a lot in Canada, certainly in the US or even internationally, people [00:04:00] looking for work.
Michelle: And also there's a fair amount of individuals who just don't have energy for their work anymore, maybe because their company's gone through a restructure and they're really looking for something new. I joined the, the PPA program because I wrote a book, actually, I'm going to, show it here.
Michelle: It's called Cultivating Career Growth, navigating Transitions With Purpose. It's on Amazon. And, I really wanted to, heighten my visibility, not just in terms of my business, but also. to gain some attention for my book. So, if I look back to, Dustin, when we first met, where was my business at that point, my visibility was really confined to hoping that people would find my website, and the limited work that I was doing on LinkedIn, to promote myself and talk about what it is that I can do to help clients.
Michelle: I'll be honest, I mean, I've been coaching for 10 years and I only really started getting on LinkedIn about six years ago, more [00:05:00] actively. And, so, if I fast forward to today, my visibility is way more than what's on LinkedIn way more than my website. I've been on about 40 podcasts a little bit more than that, just in the last year and a few months.
Michelle: so a large number of podcasts and that's really. Increase my visibility. It's driven traffic to my website. certainly I promote these episodes on LinkedIn, so that increases my visibility and,it's just really given me an opportunity. Oh. it just really gives me an opportunity to talk about, the value that I can bring to clients, how I can help them find new work and be less frustrated and discouraged in the process.
Michelle: So, this whole program has really given me the opportunity to get out there more, to really put myself out there, and that was a big vulnerable move and, and be able to be seen on, a bigger stage. So, so thank you Dustin, for making this program available giving us all, like the opportunity [00:06:00] to, get noticed by podcasts and by those hosts and, be able to share our value with a bigger audience than we had before.
Dustin: Yeah. Well, and we're gonna talk. More specific as we kind of go through the journey. it started with podcast casting that's, I think, has been the core, but there's been radio and TV and, a really large podcast most recently. but I think one thing that's really interesting, Michelle, when I think of our interactions and maybe even before you joined, and certainly in the first couple weeks of our time together in our program, it wasn't.
Dustin: the early inflection point that I see through the lens, I've worked about 300 people in this program. So, the fact that I remember this moment,is I think telling. So I think there was a breakthrough early on and it was a discussion about your target market and you were sort of juggling a couple different worlds as far as the Bullseye client who you really wanted to focus on, not only for the book, but for your primary coaching practice.
Dustin: And of course all that ties into who do you wanna reach with the podcast opportunities that you get. So can, [00:07:00] if you recall that as vividly as I do, can you go back a little bit and tell us, before podcasting even was part of the journey, what was the, the decision point or the breakthrough maybe around target market that you experienced?
Michelle: Yeah, absolutely. and I remember that conversation quite vividly as well. so I mean, just to back up, before getting on podcasts, even just pitching yourself to be on a podcast, you have to be really clear about, what is your target market like, who are the individuals that you're trying to reach?
Michelle: And then obviously what are the podcasts that will give you the greatest access to that audience? And I'll admit, when I started in the PPA program, It was a little bit murky for me what that target audience was going to be. I mean, I was wearing multiple hats. I, yes, I am a career transition expert and coach.
Michelle: I do work with individuals who are, as I mentioned before, really trying to seek out new work. but the other hat I wear was, leadership, coaching and helping, new [00:08:00] leaders, emerging leaders be able to develop, the competencies to be the kind of leaders that people want to work for and stay for.
Michelle: And I was wearing both of those hats and, when we were, having a conversation around like, who's my target? I was really on the fence because I was working with leaders and I was working with individuals who really needed to find,develop a job search plan to help them find new work.
Michelle: And it was really through that conversation. Dust. I remember clearly you said. You need to pick a lane. Like where, first of all, do I have the greatest impact? What am I known for? What audiences really seek me out? If I'm really honest with myself? And when I did that further reflection, as much as I, I still love working with leaders, but the primary audience that was seeking me out were those individuals who, they were discouraged.
Michelle: Like by the time they were reaching out to me, they had already started looking for work on their own. They weren't [00:09:00] really getting the results that they were hoping some people were. Mass applying into the abyss and getting, zero interviews. note to everybody, that is not a strategy if you're looking for new work.
Michelle: even though people think that's the best way to get notice, no, it is not today. and they basically had no plan. They had no strategy. They were just, applying and they were like maybe randomly talking to people. They also had no target and mm-hmm. So when I was really honest with myself, I realized, you know what I mean, that's the audience that I can serve the best.
Michelle: There are the individuals who really need my help. And so that then became the core when I reached out to, different podcast hosts that I could help these people. And, my results and my speaking points really aligned to that target market. So, I mean, Dustin, I thank you for asking me that question.
Michelle: You challenged me. I remember I felt uncomfortable in that moment. I'm like, I don't wanna pick a [00:10:00] lane. I actually really enjoy working with both of these audiences, but I could see if, actually, if I draw it down to even how I work with clients, I see that it is confusing for companies if a candidate applies for multiple things and they don't have a target of what they're looking for in their career.
Michelle: It's confusing to podcast. If I am, serving a number of different audiences, they don't know where to put me, they don't know how I'm going to really add value to listeners. So, so really getting specific on that was totally step number one before I did anything.
Dustin: Yeah. I want to double click on this a little bit 'cause I think anyone listening to this, can relate in some way.
Dustin: I always have said up until two years ago, there was not a point in my adult life that I didn't have at least three businesses or jobs. Yeah. and. That is not good. And so, and one of the things we always hear from people in our community and people from the PPA program is yes, they [00:11:00] wanna get on podcasts, they want more exposure, they wanna grow their business.
Dustin: But on day 90, when we say what really moved the needle, two things always come up. Clarity, which is what you just described. Yeah. And, connection, right? Because we do this in a community, we do this in a cohort basis. And the reason connection is so important, it does generate leads and it does, a lot of the other marketing things we want it to do, but it also is one of the best ways to get more clarity.
Dustin: And I think we totally underestimate clarity. and yes, we challenge people, and I've challenged you because clarity ultimately is kindness, right? Like, we're not doing this in a absolutely abrasive way. We're doing this in a way because we want you to have a bigger impact in the world and use your God-given skills and abilities in the.
Dustin: Biggest way possible. And the only way to do that is to commit and to commit to one path. knowing that you can always shift. But if you don't pick one path and run with it for at least initially, you can't get clear on if that's where the resonance and signal are. The other thing I wanted to, speak to a little bit is more of a principle from what you said, Michelle, is you identified that your [00:12:00] target clients, the best target clients that you can serve, the in the biggest way are in a period of transition.
Dustin: I think anyone that is a coach or a consultant especially, or really anyone who's in business, frankly, the place to find people that will be the most willing, the most committed, and who will see the biggest results and wanna pay the most for the res, those results are in some period of transition in their life, right?
Dustin: Their health, their wealth or their relationships, in your case, career transition. And I think that's really, important. Yeah. So I didn't wanna skip that 'cause I think most people show up to a case study and they're like, tell me about all the podcasts. How'd you get on 'em? and how much money did you make?
Dustin: and we wanna talk about some of those things, but. Before all of that, we always start with the first p and r five P framework, which is purpose, which is getting clear on who do you wanna serve, what's the transformation you provide, and what are the words that will resonate to your ideal client in their period of transition so that you can draw them in and serve them, right?
Dustin: So thank you for, articulating that so well. And so we got past that. And then, in our [00:13:00] process, then we start looking for podcasts to be on and we start pitching those podcasts. We start, showing the value we can provide those audiences. Again, I. Consistency is definitely like the theme of your journey.
Dustin: But when you think back to the earlier parts of this, what was it like to start getting on podcasts? Like sort of what was like a week by week, flow that you went in before you really got a virtual assistant involved and kind of started scaling it up, which we'll talk about next.
Michelle: Absolutely, and I mean, I'll offer as well, I mean, I.
Michelle: I was pitching myself on podcasts for probably a solid nine months before I got anybody else involved to help me out. So I got really clear on, how it works and what podcasts, work and how you adjust the pitch to reach different host, all of that. but really how it worked for me is just really building, building, podcast, pitching and re and research on podcasts into my routine.
Michelle: So, so every week I would set myself a goal and I mean, I'll be honest, [00:14:00] it's not like I was pitching myself on like 10 podcasts a week. It might be two. it might be two or three podcasts a week. Sometimes it was a little bit more, sometimes it was a little bit less. But I really made it an aim to week over week, making sure that I'm doing something to put myself out there, to connect to new hosts, and especially to really keep an eye out and do my own research on podcasts.
Michelle: That would be a really good fit for me. So how that research worked, I mean, yeah, go Google will be your friend shot, GBT will be your friend. I mean, AI can really help you out there. I found there was a lot of value on just even keeping an eye on my LinkedIn feeds and the thought leaders that I followed.
Michelle: What podcasts were they on? And, then I would add those to my list and, then I could reference, oh, I. I follow this podcast and it just showed that I was paying attention and, and it made it easier actually for me to pitch some of those. so I, I just made sure I always made light touches.
Michelle: it [00:15:00] wasn't about aggressive pitching or volume. I really was looking for the quality. and I also leveraged, joining the POD match community, as well because it got me some practice, like it ga it got me on some smaller podcasts and that's where I started. I didn't start with the Art of Charm in the beginning.
Michelle: I mean, there is no way, in fact, there, there's some imposter syndrome even that went with that one. I'm sure we're gonna talk about that later. But, I remember in the early days I thought there's no way I could get on BID podcast. So, I really did start small because I wanted to make sure I just, I built my confidence.
Michelle: I wasn't familiar with the. The podcast world before that, in terms of being a guest. So I wanted to get some practice. I wanted to build my confidence. I really wanted to work on, refining my speaking points. bringing in my client stories, developing my call to action. And so I did start really small and then was able to grow it from there.
Michelle: So I [00:16:00] remember in the beginning, I wasn't fussy on the global reach that podcasts had, like a lot. That's
such
Dustin: a great Canadian word. I just wanna call that out. You weren't fussy about it. yes. It's good. I like it.
Michelle: It's a good, humble word. There's definitely certain clues. I think that I'm Canadian. I went to Los Angeles like a few weeks, well, to do the Art of Charm.
Michelle: And I remember being in a restaurant and I asked to use the washroom and the server said, you're Canadian, aren't you? I said, what is it about that word? But apparently it was a giveaway. There, there are others, but, I digress. Yeah. so, really, I didn't look for global reach.
Michelle: That wasn't important to me. I really just, I wanted to add value to listeners. I wanted to be able to share my story and some strategies that would help people. And if it had like a zero like point global reach on listen notes. So for all of you, if you're interested in getting on podcasts, listen notes will be your friend.
Michelle: It will tell you how, what kind of reach a podcast has. starting small and just being consistent was honestly my strategy.
Dustin: Yeah, [00:17:00] I love that. And a few things I wanna kind of point out here, especially for people who haven't been through this as a process, Mm-hmm. you mentioned like at least nine months, prior you had been doing this.
Dustin: But yeah, something changed, obviously. Part of it was the focus and the target market. Maybe the, accountability built into saying, Hey Michelle, it's week three. Have you pitched two more podcasts? Three more podcasts? And maybe being in the momentum of a community that is kind of striving towards something, sim similar, but yeah.
Dustin: When you think of the nine months before you join and then maybe the three months after you joined something switched there. 'cause you were actually getting yeses, you were getting in reps and I know you started small, which I'll, I wanna highlight 'cause I think that's actually really important.
Dustin: Yeah. Was there anything in there that you're like, this is why it was different. Like did your pitch change? Did your mindset change? Did the process change? Did you have better tools?
Michelle: Yeah. I mean, I would say it was probably a combination of all those things. So, I mean, the one [00:18:00] thing that I recognized very early on in my pitching days, and I'm gonna say I got my first, yes.
Michelle: Probably like weeks after I started. Yeah. with having a really clear structure for the pitch and and I mean, I'll go on to say there are hosts that have complimented me on my pitch, which like is the system we'll talk about that in a moment. Of course I know you will as well. But hosts have said to me, I get.
Michelle: Hundreds of pitches a week, and most of them are garbage or they're generated by ai. And what hosts have said is, your pitch stood out for a few reasons. And this is part of your structure in your system, Dustin. yeah, and I say the system works, I literally don't mess with it. Like I'm still using it exactly as I learned it in PA, like I'm not touching it, because it does work.
Michelle: But I mean, the reason hosts like it is because first of [00:19:00] all, I'm grabbing their attention from the subject line. I'm quoting an episode. so they think, oh, episode 1 38, what does this person wanna say about episode 1 38? So they actually open it. my subject line doesn't say request to be on podcast.
Michelle: Like, yes, delete. That's a fast track. To delete it. It doesn't
Dustin: say, Michelle is God's gift to creation. You would be honored to have, it comes from a place of service. And I, and yeah, we're not gonna like open up pitches and look at 'em here live, but. for anyone who's not been through this, I just, I wanna like emphasize what makes these pitches different.
Dustin: they're not, they're not AI generated. It's quality over quantity. It's personalized, because we're not playing a game of like, let's send out a thousand random ones and hope someone says yes. in your words, like, what do you think, what's your mindset when you, have crafted some of these early pitches and what, and how they were received to get that sort of compliment from a host?
Michelle: Yeah, like it was, it showed certainly that I was paying attention, that I've listened to the podcast, I know you know who their audience is. I'm not pitching something that they've already covered. So I've [00:20:00] actually, gone into past episodes just to see like, where can I add value, the thing that I hear most.
Michelle: and this is really key to what I still do with pitches and now what my virtual assistant does is, yeah, that's gonna be
Dustin: our next, that's gonna be our next point here. Yeah.
Michelle: Complete your thoughts there. Exactly. but it's being really clear on what can you offer, like, and not putting a whole lot of words around that, but having like three bullets, three crisp bullets that showcase like what I can do.
Michelle: So, like one of my bullets would be,five reflective questions that everybody should ask before they change jobs. Like that would be one speaking point, but like that grabs hosts. And so, by also integrating what makes me credible, because they wanna have somebody on their podcast that is not a random person off the street, but somebody who carries some credibility.
Michelle: So I'll throw some stats in there, like a last podcast that I was on and how many downloads there were. The fact that I have a book, and where people can find it. Like, so that those things just [00:21:00] increase credibility and do encourage hosts to say yes. It's the personal aspect of it, that really appeals to hosts and that's why hosts do say Yes.
Michelle: Now I'll be clear. I've had rejections. Of course. Yeah. You know it's gonna happen. Me too. Yeah. or non responses, and that's gonna happen as well. but you know, the ability to like follow up, make it relevant for people. and if you're targeting the right podcast and you are pitching in a genuine way that also showcases value, those hosts are gonna want to have you on their show.
Dustin: Yeah, I love that. I'm gonna pop up a graphic here. For those that aren't familiar with the framework, we've sort of, we've sort of been, we talked a lot about this, like. The specificity of who Michelle was trying to reach and some of the, key talking points to reach someone in transition and be able to communicate that to a host, right?
Dustin: That translates into finding shows. You mentioned some of the tools like listen notes, pod match. These are things that we cover in our program. and then we've kind of moved over into the [00:22:00] pitch. I'm going to transition mostly over into kind of the fifth P here. So this is the process that we follow over a 90 day period.
Dustin: And basically the first 30 days are foundational podcast guesting, assets that we create, right? Like finding the right shows, writing a master pitch that we can customize to each of the hosts so that they say, Hey, I get hundreds of these a week, and you're stood out and I actually, want to engage you because you're real and you actually care.
Dustin: and then we will talk a little bit here about perform, which is like, what do you do on the podcast to make it so effective? And then we're gonna spend the remainder of our time here talking about. How this affects your business. And specifically on the podcast guessing side, how do we scale this?
Dustin: Because I think if I was sitting here and I didn't really have awareness of this process, my thought would be, this sounds really cool. It also sounds really time consuming, right? And like, how do you do this without it becoming your job? How do you do this so that it gets you the clients, it sells the books, and it amplifies your authority, but in a way that lets you [00:23:00] sit in your zone of genius and show up and be the subject matter expert rather than a professional podcast pitcher.
Dustin: so let's, so I wanna talk about that. We're gonna talk about how you've used a virtual assistant to help you scale this up over the past 18 months. before that, just so we don't not mention it, when you're in an interview. So they say yes and you show up for the interview. Do you wanna talk just a little bit about how you like prep for that interview and what you've learned about.
Dustin: The art of interviewing. Well, and the call to action. So just take us through like an example interview where they said yes, and now you're like, Hey, it's this afternoon. What do you do to prepare? How does that interview usually flow? And then what's the importance of the end of the interview with the call to action?
Dustin: And we'll spend the rest of our time talking about how this has affected your business.
Michelle: For sure. So, really, like right from the preparation stage. I mean, the first thing I do is I just refresh my memory, what is that target audience, listen to a couple of episodes, even just listening to the start of an episode.
Michelle: Yeah. And the end of an episode, if you don't have [00:24:00] time to listen to a whole episode, just gives you a flavor for, like what's a host style? Like, some hosts like to ask like a key question of all of their guests right at the end. Well, if you don't know what that is because you've never listened to their podcast, then you might be ill prepared to be able to answer that.
Michelle: So doing a little bit of research is, I'd say a first level of preparation. I also like to just make a few notes for myself. some, it depends on the host, like. Some hosts are very open-ended and they say we're just gonna have a conversation and it's gonna go to a number of different ways.
Michelle: So I wanna make sure that there's a few key speaking points that I'm gonna want to make sure that I bring forward. Other hosts are a little bit more scripted, like they might have some questions that they send to me in advance. I'll check in with a co, a host in advance to see what their style is. So you might be able to prepare to some very specific questions.
Michelle: So there's a level of preparation that goes with that. I'd say the main preparation. Dustin, you sent me a [00:25:00] pack of these. I was using regular post-it notes, but who needs to use regular ones when you can use the magic post-it note. So, this is something that we do cover off in the PPA program and I mean, it sounds like really simple.
Michelle: Like, what do you mean? I can fit stuff on just one post-it note and that's gonna get me ready. But it's a way to just log some really key information. So. The host name, make sure you know how to pronounce the host name. This is where listening to the podcast in advance really critical. so phonetically I will write it out if it's a maybe complicated pronunciation, I wanna be ready for that.
Michelle: I'm going to just have some keywords there about, like what are my key stories that I wanna bring forward? I also wanna log on this magic post-it note. What is my call to action? what am I going to recommend and share with listeners? It just gives you a way to not forget about that stuff and to give it some thought in advance.
Michelle: So I find all of that preparation allows me [00:26:00] then that when I am on air and some podcasts I've been on, have been live, some have obviously been recorded, and then there's some editing that goes along with it. Yeah, which is great as well. It could be one of those too. But when you're actually on air, and the recording is happening, I want, I'm very conscious of making sure that I'm integrating those key speaking points, and especially those clients' stories at different points in the podcast because people love stories.
Michelle: They want to hear results. they don't wanna hear. Theory, right? They wanna hear, well what do you do with that strategy? So, like for example, interview preparation. Yeah, I can share all kinds of tips around that. But what's gonna be really impactful is what did a client do with those tips and what, did they get a job?
Michelle: by following these strategies. People want to hear about that. and especially at the end, it is such a golden opportunity and [00:27:00] make sure you don't miss that opportunity to share that call to action. So remind listeners of how it is that you can help. But then I have always given like freebies and Dustin, I'd say this was something that was my missed opportunity.
Michelle: Had I not gone through this program. Yeah. I wouldn't think that, oh, I need to have some kind of giveaway because, People like free stuff, we all like free stuff. so my freebies, there's two actually that I share with listeners. One is a free chapter to my book that they can download, so try before they buy.
Michelle: But then the other, is a reflective tool, with some key questions that everybody should ask before they look for a job. whether you have a job or you don't have a job. And that too is a free download. It comes with a little video on how you completed. so it gives people some tools, actionable tools that they can use combined with the conversation.
Michelle: And that way it's another way of adding value to, to listeners. the other thing that I [00:28:00] do, and this is something that I'll do with hosts after, is I'll always ask 'em, and Dustin, I know this came up in our program too, is a way to be a good guest, which is. To ask the host, how can I be of service to you?
Michelle: So, they've generously. had me on the show, how can I support 'em? I always leave a review after, so that's a given. but I also always promote the episode, on LinkedIn and that goes beyond just like responding to their tag of you on LinkedIn. It's, what I do, and this is where, using a virtual assistant, my VA is on the line actually right now.
Michelle: Yeah. she actually provi, prepares some clips that are generated from the video from the podcast. And so I will post my own post on LinkedIn. I'll tag the host, and then what I'll do too is I will, promote that episode, throughout the year, not just once. So, [00:29:00] if you wanna follow me on LinkedIn, you're going to see evidence of that today because my post today is all about leveraging the network to find your next job.
Michelle: I included a clip from a podcast I did last year. It was in 2025, but I'm telling a client's story about how this client used their network and it opened up a door and it got him a job actually. So I try to. Re-promote episodes throughout the year, in different LinkedIn posts, which gives visibility to the host, gives visibility to me.
Michelle: it's a win-win for people who follow me because they're gonna learn something new. so lots of reasons to do that. and just to, you wanna be the guest that the host has on again, and I have been on shows again, repeatedly in some cases. So, that strategy really works.
Dustin: And do you find by being what we would call a top 1% guest, leaving the review, asking how you can help sharing the content, have you found that you also generate referrals from one host to another host that [00:30:00] way.
Michelle: Yeah. Yeah. I mean, that has happened where one host has referred me to another host. What I've also seen though, is I've had hosts refer individuals to me because they, for clients know somebody in their Yeah, exactly. they know somebody in their circle who has been looking for work. They've been struggling, they have been getting interviews, no offers.
Michelle: And so they will refer people to me. I actually had a host refer one of his own clients to me.
Dustin: Wow. That's awesome.
Michelle: So that's powerful. That says a lot to me that, and actually it's funny, in that case, he shared the footage from our recording before I even saw it because he wanted this client to just watch it and he said, I really think this person would be a great fit for you.
Michelle: which was very generous Yeah. Of him to do that. So, so yeah, being on a podcast has. A bigger life than just being on the podcast. yes, and it's actually turned into [00:31:00] like, like I mentioned, like repeat performance, not performance, but repeat appearances. Yeah. in one case, actually, one host and I, we have regular quarterly chats.
Michelle: He's a coach. I'm a coach. so we have these conversations together, but that came from being on his podcast the very first time. So, you just never know where. Like their relationships. Yeah. it's not just an appearance.
Dustin: it's literally the word I just wrote down. 'cause I didn't wanna make sure we, we didn't miss that.
Dustin: The relationship aspect. Yeah,
Michelle: yeah. And I mean, I'll add there. I've never had a bad conversation with on a po. Like, I just have not, like, there's never been a podcast where I've thought, oh gosh, yeah, that was clunky or that was awkward, or there were lots of pauses or no, like, it just like really free flowing.
Michelle: Every host has got their own style, so you do have to have some kind of flexibility and adaptability to go with their own style too. but the conversations are, they're engaging, you're talking about things [00:32:00] that are, important to you, important to them, important to their listeners. So I use like, my mindset going into these, conversations and they are conversations is, it's not, oh, will I get new clients?
Michelle: From this, it's more what can I share with listeners that will help them in a time that, is a really vulnerable, frustrating, discouraging time for a lot of people. And when you go in with that mindset that this is a conversation, it just flows. And, but I mean it flows a lot because of what we've learned certainly in this program.
Michelle: And just, just really being prepared. I think that, these are not conversations. you wanna wing 'em, like you do want to go in with some level of preparation that helps your confidence, but it also helps the host because you're sharing things that are really actionable with listeners to take on.
Dustin: And, Principle or a theme I wanna make sure that [00:33:00] we highlight here is something that I said consistency, which is true, but I actually think there's a bigger principle here, and it's being a pro, right? Like, I remember going back, into my engineering days and, like I said, Tom's here from those days.
Dustin: And one of the things I was taught early on is there's a lot of times that you don't feel like it. you maybe you're a little under the weather. But it's your responsibility to be a pro, right? Like, so being a pro versus being an amateur at anything. And I'd say especially as an entrepreneur in business, there's different components to that.
Dustin: One is consistency, right? You mentioned early on that you're like, Hey, some weeks didn't have it in the tank, or I was really busy and, but I still did one pitch, right? And some weeks I did four or whatever, right? But there was a consistent cadence that it became part of your commitment to yourself.
Dustin: Like, this is what I do. I'm committed to this. the other thing I heard in there that speaks to that is how you prepare for these interviews, right? The magic PostIt note. we like, we joke about that is kind of a cute thing, but there's a couple things [00:34:00] there. One is the actual preparation. It forces you to get your thoughts down into a single, three by five post-it note.
Dustin: And that's really powerful because it speaks to the clarity that's required. you mentioned listening to like the first five in the last five minutes of an episode so that you can. You need to do that to prepare that Post-it note. The thing you didn't say that I hear a lot is it is a primer to sort of step into the arena, right?
Dustin: And again, I don't wanna overdramatize, being on a podcast as like going to war or anything like that, but maybe think of like LeBron James, on the NBA court, even if you don't follow basketball, you've all seen a clip of LeBron James goes from dad husband mode, he steps onto the sideline before a game, he goes to the score table and he takes talcum powder, he blows it up in the air, right?
Dustin: And when he steps onto the court at that point, he's now locked in as a professional and he's there to perform at his highest right. Kobe Bryant became the black mamba. They all athletes sort of had these alter egos they turn on. And I think a mini version of that happens here where you're, I'm locked in, I [00:35:00] prepare.
Dustin: I make my post-it note and I feel confident, I'm ready to go. I'm focused on the host, I'm there to serve, and I've done the preparation to have the right stories and have a really clear call to action. Yeah. So that's the difference I think between the prior nine months and the like after point is like you had a system to follow.
Dustin: You had clarity on what you wanted to talk about. You were taking it serious and to your credit, 'cause not everyone does this, you did it consistently and you took, you treat it as a professional. And that is what creates compounding results over time is that attitude toward, success and also controlling the controllables, right?
Dustin: Like you said, I don't go into this thinking, I'm making a sale, I gotta get a client on this episode. It's like, I'm gonna plant seeds, I'm gonna build a relationship, I'm gonna serve and I know. Based on the laws of the universe and reciprocity and everything else that like good things or will happen. And some of those good things come from someone hearing, downloading the thing that you offered as a free gift and becoming your client.
Dustin: Sometimes the host refers you a client. I've had many times where the host becomes the client, but I don't put that [00:36:00] pressure on it. I'm showing up and just doing the part I can control, which is giving a great interview and being clear with my call to action. and then all the things that we can do after.
Dustin: So I wanna flash this up real quick. for those that maybe aren't as familiar. So the podcast interview is a foundational important step in the process. But a lot of the things you just heard Michelle go through and she's doing this naturally 'cause she's been doing it for 18 months, is actually.
Dustin: After the interview, what do you do to maximize the impact of the interview? And so we call this a flywheel. and I won't go through all this in detail, but in essence, when you do one interview and it's the right podcast, you told the right story, you had a good call to action, you'll get leads on your email list when they come to download your free chapter of your book or your reflective tool with key questions, that Michelle uses, you will generate sales in lots of different formats.
Dustin: and it, and those sales can become evergreen because this is not a one-off flash in the pan interview. It's something you can reuse. And Michelle just posted today an interview she did a year ago, right? and the part that I get most excited about. [00:37:00] Are the relationships. And so when you do this the right way and you show up as a professional and people,are clear on what you do and who you are and what you stand for, you develop amazing relationships with the host and they can become a client, a referral source for clients, a referral source for other podcasts.
Dustin: we didn't talk a lot today and maybe won't have time to dig in too much. But another thing to keep in mind if you haven't done this is when you're on a podcast, now you have the ability to build relationships with all the other guests that are on that podcast because now you're both in the same kind of cool kids club and you have that shared credibility and trust from the host, and that becomes an evergreen source because they continue to do interviews with new cool people that you have a reason to connect with.
Dustin: Michelle does a lot better job than me at repurposing content, and she talked about that, right? Like creating clips and posting on LinkedIn and putting this, featuring this in emails and just sharing it, with potential clients. All of these things build your authority, right? And as we close out in the next five or so minutes with Michelle's core part, before we get to questions, I [00:38:00] think what we've seen over 18 months is.
Dustin: Her authority has grown dramatically, right to the point where now it's easier to get on the next podcast, she can get on bigger podcasts. She continues to follow the playbook and follow the systems, but the same effort in results in much bigger outputs out because she's built momentum through this like flywheel effect.
Dustin: So I wanna hit that. And then one thing I don't wanna leave us hanging on Michelle. before we answer questions, there's some good questions coming in chat.
Michelle: Yeah.
Dustin: tell us about your virtual assistant. Tell us about Angela and tell us about when you decided to have someone help you with this process.
Dustin: What was the sort of like ROI mental calculation of when is it worth it? And tied to that as you're talking about it, Sarah had a question earlier, like, do you feel it was important for you to do the pitching on your own before you brought someone in and had us help you train 'em up? So tell us just a little bit about, Angela and your virtual assistant experience and then we'll go to q and a.
Michelle: For sure. So, so to answer that last part, absolutely. I mean, I wanted to [00:39:00] really get a lot of familiarity with doing the post or the pitching myself before I could ever bring anybody in. And I mean, I'll be honest, I mean, for the longest time, I mean, I, I have been self-employed for 10 years.
Michelle: Sometimes the hardest thing to do when you're a business owner is to let somebody else in. To help you out with certain things. And,Dustin, I mean, one of the benefits of being part of your community is you're very generous with bringing people in and yourself as well, like hosting, like, informational like workshops.
Michelle: And let's talk about strategies that will elevate your business. Well, I remember going on one workshop, I can't remember exactly which one it was, but it was talking about like what it, what is, like your big goal for your business, but then what can, what's standing in your way to realizing that goal?
Michelle: And I realized what was standing in my way is I was trying to do it all myself. And that was ridiculous because it just didn't allow myself enough time to do the thing that I really love, which is helping people and one-on-one coaching. So I had put it in my goal for [00:40:00] last year. I'm going to finally.
Michelle: Exclamation mark work with the virtual assistant because it had been on my mind and I always kind of went,no. I don't have the right person. I don't trust anybody. Like it's not gonna happen. And and I did finally find somebody. So before starting working with Angela, I started with an individual named Sarah.
Michelle: And Sarah. I learned about through this community and she just did podcast pitching and so, she was actually the one who got me on Art of Charm, which is a massive podcast, because she was trained in your system. and Sarah is such an expert in that area, but I needed somebody who could do more than just podcast pitching for me.
Michelle: So enter Angela. So know Angela is starting to do podcast pitch for me just very recently, in addition to a whole lot of other things that add value. But what that has allowed me to do is certainly. It's allowed me to, still get in front of hosts and get on these shows without me needing to take the time to do it myself.
Michelle: And because [00:41:00] Angela has gone through your training, Dustin, like she understands and through our conversations the structure needed. So now, like now I've feel that trust to allow her to pitch on my behalf, which means that I can just show up on the show and start sharing my expertise without doing the research and the pitching.
Michelle: So, so Angela and I have a goal of how many pitches she's going to do every week. so she's starting to action that, which is going to gain some traction, which is amazing. and that's just really helped me out. It's just opened up a total door for me.
Dustin: That's awesome. Yeah. And that's the next level, of professionalism.
Dustin: Yeah. Is empowering others to help you spread your mission. Like, I used to take a lot of. Pride and I'm a scrappy solopreneur and like I can do it all. and that works until it doesn't. Right? you always hit a cap doing that. So one of the things that we encourage people to do, not everyone does it, not everyone does it right away, Michelle did it, did a version of it, and then it sort of evolved and she's got like a higher use now of an assistant on her [00:42:00] team.
Dustin: But after we get through, to answer Sarah's question, my preferred way to do this is we work with the founder, right? And for the, especially those first 30 days, it's very hands-on foundational work about messaging and finding the right shows and help you craft that pitch and refine it with you and coach you on how to perform well and get your call to action dialed in.
Dustin: And then in week five of our 12 week program that we run, we invite people to get some help with this, right? And so we actually have put together a, it's actually been updated since Michelle's original version. and so we'll make sure Angela has it, if she hasn't already, but we've really went deep into our training for, let us train your virtual assistant so they can run this on your behalf.
Dustin: But the appropriate time to do that is after you as the founder and the person whose mission we're amplifying,has refined it with our help. so basically at week five we say, you can keep doing this your own, that's fine. But if you were looking to scale this up, the best way to do that is to get some help.
Dustin: And it's a low investment relative to the [00:43:00] return. and we're really. Fans of owning that as part of your business as an asset versus like going out to a podcast, booking agency and kind of renting the,the reps. We really want you to own that because it's gonna be much more strategically designed and it's gonna be much more in alignment with you and your stories and your values, and it's an asset of your business, right?
Dustin: So now, Michelle has, she talked about, she had a transition in her staffing, but she hasn't lost the ability to pitch because she owns that function, right? Versus like outsourcing it and then an outsourced agency is not, doesn't have the same, strategy behind it and all those things. So anyway, the kinda long story short on that is this is very scalable, but the way to scale it beyond yourself is to get someone who, actually loves to do the research and the pitching and some of the things that we'll do on the backend of a podcast to maximize the return on it.
Dustin: And so, yeah, just wanna say that as a, as a encouragement. And then Michelle. Two minutes and then we'll spend the last 10 minutes here answering a few questions. Yeah. but yeah, we didn't really [00:44:00] do this yet. I just realized as you were talking about Art of Charm, but like, take us to present day, what's your business look like?
Dustin: how did the book, how's the book done? You've been on tv, you've been on Art of Charms. Like, I'm only giving you two minutes, but like give us kind of a snapshot of how life looks today,versus 18 months ago.
Michelle: Absolutely. I mean, like my visibility, certainly online is way different. So I remember like years ago if I were to Google myself and I encourage all of you like, Google yourself.
Michelle: Yeah. And see where you fall on the Google searches, because that's how a lot of people will find you as well. I was on like page five. Of search results, and I'm on page one pretty consistently now. So I really attribute the online presence of being on podcasts as part of that. I mean, I'm a very active participant on LinkedIn.
Michelle: Like, so if you follow me, you're gonna get something from me, like probably four out of five days of the week. talking about job, looking for work and exploring new career [00:45:00] paths. so that visibility's increased. I always ask people, how did you find me? And so in some cases, yeah, they've heard me on a podcast, which is amazing.
Michelle: And I've had listeners of podcasts refer me to other people who have become clients. That's actually how wide reaching that circle can be. But like other people will say, I found you like through like a chat GPT search a prompt. I'm like, oh, or you were in a Reddit thread. I'm like, really?
Michelle: Okay. So, you can appear in different places, like beyond what you are doing for yourself. It's just the fact that consistent presence and visibility, I can't say enough about that because that has really raised the bar. And I would say, to get on the Art of Charm, which, cue that imposter syndrome I mentioned before, I,
Dustin: this is like 10,000 reviews on Apple, podcast.
Dustin: So people that like know, familiar with our program and you sort of think of the scale a lot of times we're targeting shows that like a hundred reviews. My show has like [00:46:00] 49, like this has 10,000. So this is a very large show with a huge following. And yeah. Tell us real quick, Michelle. Like, how did that happen?
Dustin: Did you become best friends with the host and his wife invited you over for dinner? Like, everyone thinks these things happened through like fraternity or sorority connections, but that's not what happened, right?
Michelle: no. I mean, it happened organically in the way that we've been talking about since the top of the hour, which is, doing research on a show, aligning you know yourself to that show and what you can offer a value and pitching yourself.
Michelle: And honestly, I got on the Art of Charm, not because I know AJ who was the host. not because I had any kind of prior relationships, not because somebody recommended me. It literally came from the pitch and the structure that we've been talking about. And and yeah, I remember being. Floored when I found out that they accepted, I thought, oh my gosh.
Michelle: And the interesting thing is I would say like, well [00:47:00] actually all of my other podcast appearances have been virtual. Like in this way, we've been on Zoom and whatnot. they asked me to come to LA for it. I went, remember Dustin? I went to, I'm like, should I go looked? Hed me
Dustin: in our circle community is like, is this legit?
Dustin: Should I do this? I'm like, I think so. Yeah.
Michelle: Yeah. Well, and it was the doubting in me, right? And the imposter part. I thought, why did they want me on? Like, I, because they've had some, you've, you listed, I think in one of your email communications, like some of their past guests. I thought, I'm not. In their league, like not even close.
Michelle: and yet they want me. And I did, I doubted it. And that's why I went to you. I'm like, is this for real? This is a scam, right? You're like, no, you wanna go and you want to be there. So, so I did. I mean, I flew to LA and I have an aunt who lives in San Francisco, so it was a great way to kind of tie in all that.
Michelle: but it also allowed me. Because I was on site, that I could just build that relationship with the host a little bit more. So, I mean, now, like, yeah, the episode has dropped [00:48:00] and I engage with AJ on his LinkedIn, and I comment on his post, like, again, be a good guest. Like, promote the episode, tag the person, like share, share the learnings, like do all those things.
Michelle: And, who knows, maybe down the road there's an opportunity to come back. Maybe at some point, AJ might say, you know what, there's somebody I know that would really benefit from your expertise. Because we had a really good conversation and we did. I mean, we talked for that episode is over an hour, which is longer than.
Michelle: A lot of the other episodes I'll do. but there was just so much good that came out of it and, we just kind of, we were so aligned and the energy just fed and, it was a really great conversation. so yeah. Yeah, definitely. if you are wondering, can I do this? Should I dip my toe in this pool?
Michelle: my answer is a resounding yes. Yeah. But go in not with the goal of I'm gonna increase my client base by 30%. because, [00:49:00] yeah. Maybe that happens or maybe it doesn't, but I mean, a very minimum. It is going to increase your visibility with your target market. And that's the benefit, best benefit of all.
Michelle: And Dustin, I know I've said this to you before, if somebody would pay me to just do this, like seriously, like to go on podcast to, appear on and I have appeared on like morning TV or on, radio shows that focus on looking for work, I love doing it like it's so much. Fun. And, so allow yourself to try it out, to gain some confidence, be playful in the conversation.
Michelle: I mean, it's a conversation. It's not, you don't read off of a script. It is really, paying attention and making sure you tell those stories. Make sure you have your call to action. Make sure that you give listeners something of value. those things will all, it'll come back to you tenfold for sure.
Dustin: I love it. Well, we've had a few questions in chat. [00:50:00] I wanna squeeze in what we can in six minutes. We do have a hard stop at the top of the hour. yeah, I also want to just invite people, if you're, not one of our clients, a lot of people, listening to this live are in our community already.
Dustin: And I love that you guys show up for so many different things. It's, it's one of my most fulfilling things. But someone asked me last week, I was at a conference, it was about ai, and they said like. Who do you serve? And I say, here's the easiest way to say it. when I meet someone and they say I'm really good at what I do, I'm really passionate about what I do.
Dustin: I'm on a mission to change the world and the thing that I've been gifted with, but I'm not very good at marketing. Like those are my people because I have a firm belief that there's a method to do the thing you do and make it your marketing. And I feel like podcast guesting is a very approachable way to do that if you have any kind of online business.
Dustin: And the thing that jumped out to me, Michelle, that I didn't expect, and it gave me, goosebumps. Is you said fun. And there was a period of time when we rebranded that we were actually gonna call this business seven Figure Fun. And it sounded a little too lightweight, right? but [00:51:00] that's a core belief of mine is like, your marketing should be fun.
Dustin: You should be, doing the work and be in a pro, but you should enjoy it. And I think a way to enjoy your work and enjoy your marketing is to be able to show up and teach people, and coach people and like love on people in a way that's genuine to you. Prepare for it. Have a system around it, and make sure that you're getting an ROI from it, but like that's how marketing should be and I just love.
Dustin: Your spirit and the fact that like, you're living it, right? 18 months in, you're doing it. you're continuing to invest the time and energy into it and you're being a professional, and how you're approaching this and the results, you're a very humble person and I knew that coming in, but a bestselling book, multiple tv, Canadian, me appearances, lots of radio appearances, 40 plus podcasts, being an Art of charm in person recently in la and all the, all that's gonna come from that and all the cool high quality video production that comes from being in studio is gonna continue to feed your flywheel, for a long time to come.
Dustin: So, maybe any kind of closing thoughts, Michelle? If someone's like. Sitting there and they're like, I want my marketing [00:52:00] to be fun. is it, is this a viable approach for someone who's, I know you're an extrovert, but a lot of people are sort of introverted or, I think the common thread, myself included is this imposter syndrome.
Dustin: So maybe that's a really good place, 'cause that's kind of common among a couple of the questions like speak to imposter syndrome and what this has done to help you push through that, to see the rewards on the other side of maybe a humble Canadian who didn't think she had a place in the, in the media, if you will.
Michelle: yeah. That, I mean, it's interesting, because I would say even with. even with all these appearances and things like that, I mean, I, it still pops into my head occasionally, like I did when I found out about Art of Charm. Like, is this really for me? Like, why do they wanna have me on?
Michelle: It's, I'm human, right? We're all human. I mean, these things are still gonna come up every now and again. But I would say like, if I think of where I was like in October of 2024 and where I am now, Being on podcasts and having those [00:53:00] repeated appearances, and experiences as well. that it really has fed and built my confidence.
Michelle: not just in terms of being able to speak, because I've always had an ease of speaking. In fact, my kids laugh because I remember when they were young, they would tug on my sleeve, mommy, stop talking. like I would talk to people and I say to them, now they're 17 and 19, I say. mom now is able to leverage that talking into something that's actually really productive, not some value.
Michelle: but it's believing in yourself that you have value to share, and then just being able to share that with an audience. And if you feel uncomfortable thinking, oh my gosh, like, like thousands of people are gonna listen to this, just focus on the individual. Yes. Like, like, focus on, this is an individual conversation.
Michelle: I'm gonna talk to this host. And yes, it so happens that other people are going to be listening to this, but really just focus on the individual if that's a bit of a roadblock for you. And it's really gonna open things [00:54:00] up. The other thing that I'll offer is, branding is so important. Like how you show up on a podcast should meet, like, it should be consistent to how you show up on LinkedIn, should be consistent to how you show up with your clients and people that you talk to.
Michelle: I have had people say to me, I read your book and when I talk to you, you're just the same. It's like, I'm having a conversation with you, or I heard you on this podcast and now that I'm talking to you one-on-one, you sound the same. you've got the same authenticity. So make sure that authenticity and whoever you are, that the you shows up.
Michelle: that's really important, especially for marketing and using podcasting as part of your marketing approach.
Dustin: I love that. And it's, yeah, it's just, it's such a good reminder that this is approachable and I think one of the reasons it's approachable. And you mentioned a book and you mentioned, Obviously podcasting. The commonalities between those two things is they build authority through authorship and one's a verbal expression. One's a written expression, [00:55:00] but I think the reason that can feel so comfortable to introverts like me or extroverts like you, but anyone who sort of struggles with imposter syndrome is it's long form and educational by nature.
Dustin: It's very different than the feeling of like, I got a 32nd reel that I have to pop off on Instagram and I have to like, put on a fake persona to catch people's attention. That's one of the beautiful things about podcasting is the format of it. It's literally a one-on-one conversation with another human who likes you, wants you to look good, is trying to tease out the best, that you have to offer for their audience.
Dustin: And later it gets distributed and other people see it, and you can worry, you can worry later I guess. But in the moment, it's a very comfortable way and people get to hear your real voice and they get to really understand who you are. And it's done through story and longer form, content. And I think that's part of the magic.
Dustin: And so I've so appreciate you, Michelle. if anyone's listening to this, live or on the podcast, if you're wanna explore this and you wanna know more about how this works, this is what we do. this is, we felt about 300 people, like Michelle, not all get the same results as [00:56:00] Michelle.
Dustin: They're all, humans in different, stages and places. but if you go to seven figure leap.com/call. You book a call on our schedule and we'll just have a no obligation call just to talk about your business, your goals, develop a strategy around podcast guessing for you if it makes sense.
Dustin: And then if you're like, I want the accountability, the coaching, I wanna be part of this awesome community to really accelerate my results. That's what we do for money. but but we offer the coaching calls, the strategy calls for free. So, please go to seven figure leap.com/call if you're interested in learning more.
Dustin: And Michelle, thank you for being our first spotlight session. You're just one of my favorite people. I'm so grateful we got to spend some time, with our sort of live studio audience here. unpacking your story. You answered a lot of questions in chat, so we didn't do as much of that verbally here. yeah, just thank you again and I can't wait to hear what the next 18 months looks like.
Dustin: So.
Michelle: Awesome. Thank you so much, Dustin. Thank you everybody for being online and great questions that came up today.