The Inner Game of Entrepreneurship: Identity, Mindset, and Beyond with Christopher Richards

by | Feb 6, 2024

Episode description
What does it take to be a successful entrepreneur in the 21st century? Is it enough to chase financial goals and business growth, or is there something more to the equation? In this episode, we talk to Christopher Richards, a mindset coach who specializes in helping entrepreneurs discover their true identity and align it with their business vision. Chris shares his own journey of transitioning from a successful but unfulfilled entrepreneur to a fulfilled and impactful one, and reveals the key mindset shifts that made it possible. He also explains how entrepreneurs can overcome the challenges of trauma, stress, and burnout, and find inner peace and purpose in their work. Whether you are a seasoned entrepreneur or a budding one, this episode will inspire you to evolve your entrepreneurial mindset and create a business that reflects your core values and passions. Tune in and learn how to achieve genuine growth, not only in your business, but also in yourself!
Timestamps

00:00:00 - Welcome & Introduction to Entrepreneurial Fulfillment
00:01:07 - Meet Chris Richards: Mindset Coach Extraordinaire
00:01:45 - The Crucial Intersection of Mindset and Business Achievement
00:04:05 - Identity's Influence on Entrepreneurial Expansion
00:09:45 - Exploring the Link Between Trauma and Business Outcomes
00:17:01 - Integrating Personal Values into Your Business Model
00:20:14 - Navigating the Entrepreneurial Journey with Purpose
00:26:54 - Evaluating Present Business States and Aspirations
00:32:20 - Emphasizing a Life Grounded in Core Values
00:34:37 - Decoding the Five Archetypes for Business Owners
00:43:11 - Conclusion & Next Steps for Entrepreneurs

Episode transcript

Chris: [00:00:00] The relationships that have never been more trusting and more intimate.

Chris: The relationships and the understanding of their children that have never been closer. These are things that once you get like six figures to seven, it's a lot of focus on the financial, the growth, the scale, the status. Very often, not always, but very often, once it's kind of seven figures or there, or thereabouts.

Chris: It becomes much more about the fulfillment, the peace, the feeling of flow, not wanting to wake up anxious and stressed and overwhelmed and all these sorts of things, not wanting your first thought in the morning to be about money and the structure of the business and what the project and who's going to pull you in what direction.

Dustin: Now we're getting somewhere with this.

Chris: Yeah. Within that, it's really about reaching a people. And at some point when it's ready, I want to start teaching other people to do what I do the way I do it. So there will be an accreditation on coaching my way, coaching the Atomic Growth way. But right now, that's not quite dialed in, my opinion, enough.

Chris: There is still room for improvement there. My main focus, like I say, is on building up the group. Helping as many people as humanly possible, retainer deals, and speaking events.

Dustin: I love it. Yeah. We often try to let people define their seven-figure impact or the seven-figure leap. Yours is really clear. It's seven figures of people, right? It's a million people reached and impacted with your work. And I love the idea of accreditation or certification as a way to exponentially grow your impact.

Dustin: That's gonna be part of my next evolution with my company as well.

Chris: Absolutely, I love that. I learned early on that financial goals don't work very well for me. When I've tried to hit $10,000,000 a month, $100,000 a month, it didn't work. Because once you've kind of gone through your basic needs and then some, money is not a very good motivator.

Dustin: Yeah.

Chris: With money, I'll tell you this.

Dustin: Yeah. And people that are not there yet are probably like, "That's crazy," but people who are past that line, I kind of referenced that line earlier, whatever you want to call it, like beyond your actual needs, plus most of your wants, it does just kind of lose its luster as a motivation tool.

Chris: Not just that, I actually did a post in a friend's group of entrepreneurs, and I said once, something along the lines of, "Once you have the status and the financials and the reputation and everything else, you'll realize that that wasn't actually what you wanted and what you needed." So it's one of those, I think Jim Carrey said some version of that where he's like, "I want everyone to get this so they realize that it's not it," and that caused a lot more of a stir than I thought it would, a lot of people that were upset by that. And I'm like, "What do you mean?"

Dustin: So once you get there and you realize that you still haven't filled your whole—

Chris: Exactly.

Chris: And they go out and they try to get a certain amount of money, and when that amount of money doesn't fulfill them in a certain way, they think, rather than I've aimed at the wrong target, they say maybe the target wasn't big enough and then they go to the next one and the next one and the next one, and they're constantly chasing and nothing ever really fulfills them and it can actually become very, very depressing.

Chris: It can cause us this terrible depression. For some people, it goes as far as suicidal ideation (SI) where they just become almost hopeless because they're like, "Well, I've tried everything and my life still feels empty." It peaks for a bit and then it just goes away. This is why, again, that value-based living, but you've got to know your values and you've got to know where they come from. If your values come from trauma, then you're really only doing coping mechanisms to deal with the symptoms of the trauma. You're not actually living to healthy values.

So one of the things that I was going to mention about this is beware of over identifying or over attaching to pride-based behaviors. And it goes into the archetype, so it kind of flows in quite naturally. People who really pride themselves on how much they can do for others, really pride themselves on their ability to fight fires and solve problems.

I saw a great post by a friend of mine literally today, perfectly worded as like, "Beware of taking too much pride in being a firefighter because you may become an arsonist." People who take their pride, their sense of value from what they give to others or the problems they solve tend to create that problem later on where they seek out people—you see this in relationships all the time. If you pride yourself on your ability to make your partner feel loved, very often you pair up with people who have a vacuum of love.

Unfortunately, that can very often be a very unhealthy bucket with holes in it, and it doesn't matter how much love you pour into them, it's never enough. But you feel like you're doing what you should be doing, and it can get very unhealthy if you over identify and over attach to those behaviors, the pride-based behaviors, the ones that you actually feel good about having.

The key for people listening and wondering if there's a healthy version is removing the attachment, because of course there is nothing wrong with being able to plan and prepare, something I call the strategist. There's nothing wrong with being a planner, preparer, someone who develops ideas and learns and builds on their craft.

Dustin: At this point, is the strategist one of the archetypes?

Chris: It is. See how I've segued into that?

Dustin: Yeah, it's perfect because I imagine with these archetypes, you'll give a description and there's the positive version of it, the negative version of it, depending on if you have an attachment or some of these other issues. So, yeah, Chris, I'm going to be taking notes here myself, but what are the 5 archetypes and just kind of run us through each one for us?

Chris: Amazing. Okay, so here we go. There's the strategist, the experimentalist, the trailblazer, the sage, and the caregiver.

Dustin: And it wasn't obvious, we've transitioned into the last segment of the show here. This is the practical application of the SMART strategy, as we like to call it. So you can go do something with what you've learned from Chris today. So yeah, please unpack this a bit more for us.

Chris: So it's really about developing peace and all of that for the higher levels.

Dustin: Welcome back to another episode of the seven-figure lead podcast. I'm really excited today. We're going to tackle a topic that I don't think it's talked about nearly [00:01:00] enough in entrepreneurship circles. Our guest today is Chris Richards. Chris was introduced to me by a mutual client, someone that I've helped more on the marketing and lead generation side of the world, and he's helped in mindset work, and Josh, our mutual client has given Chris a lot of credit for the rapid growth that he's experienced in his marketing agency.

Dustin: And as Chris and I started to have a wonderful conversation, I said, Chris, we should probably record this for the benefit of the audience because he was blowing my mind with some of the work that he does. So Chris, I'm going to let you introduce yourself. Talk a little bit beyond just mindset coaching as I might generically call it, talk a little bit more about what you do and what your special sauce is here.

Chris: Amazing. Thank you very much for having me. So yeah, mindset is kind of an umbrella term that a lot of people would do searches for, which is why I keep it in my title. But as we discussed, it obviously goes a lot deeper. The main focus of my work, many times with six-figure, seven-figure, even eight-figure [00:02:00] entrepreneurs, business owners is really to get them into the frame of mind, into the identity of someone who can show up on a higher level.

Chris: With higher stakes involved with higher demands and not have the stress, the resistance, the problems, internal problems that can very easily come with it when someone changes their environment, their business, or even their relationship. But doesn't change themselves. What you get is this stretched identity where they're still operating the way they, internally the way they always have, but now their situation is demanding a different version of them.

Chris: In a nutshell, that's essentially what I'm doing. Within that, I'm obviously going through yes, mindset. I go through habits and rituals. I go through somatics. I go through environment. I look into performance. I look into leadership skills and ways of sharing [00:03:00] out. So communication styles, so it's really across the board.

Chris: And of course, everything has to be tailored for the individual because although there are always, almost always similarities, they're always very important differences in background culture, their own personality style. It's really that tailored response to help them become a better version of them.

Chris: Whereas a lot of mindset work tends to focus or almost accidentally becomes a version of do this so you can be more like me. I'm not in the business of making Christopher clones.

Dustin: I love that.

Chris: Leaders who inspire leaders.

Dustin: I'm really glad I let you introduce yourself because we were already going way deeper than what people would say when they say quote unquote mindset. I have an abundance mindset versus scarcity mindset. I think as a summary of what I heard, the word I might use to better describe what you actually do is identity.

Dustin: Is that fair where you're helping people step into a new identity?

Chris: Absolutely. It's [00:04:00] identity, and it goes beyond even identity because identity is the I am. I'm looking not just at the I am, I'm looking at the I be, I do, I say, and I'm received as. It's an overused term, but it's a very holistic view of the individual and their environment and the connection between body and mind and the connection between them and their social environment.

Chris: It's so much more, which is why a lot of the time. An entrepreneur or business owner will work with other coaches and get so far or work with therapists and get so far, but almost all the time find that they reach a certain level and no matter who they work with, no matter what they do, no matter what they're pushing to try, it just doesn't seem to get them through the thing.

Chris: And the amount of people I speak to who fully understand concepts like. My worth is infinite. I am intrinsically worthy. I am deserving. I am enough. [00:05:00] Intrinsically, I know this to be true. And yet the behaviors are still coming out that would say the contrary. They're still not quite showing up their full self.

Chris: They're still, double guessing key decisions. They're still holding back on key actions. And so it's really being able to, or it's the old adage of, knowing which screw to turn, and it's really that kind of microsurgery almost, into areas that they didn't even know they need to look at, a lot of the time I see people working on their mother wound when actually it's their father wound and vice versa.

Chris: And it's so funny because they'll work on what their coach or their therapist believes is the thing. And it could be, but generally I get called in when problems keep coming back, when they're getting worse and, that frustration is really setting in because they know the problem, they know the mindset, their higher self, if you like to [00:06:00] call it that, knows what the answer should be, but it's this frustration and exhaustion of just why can't I Change and do this thing differently.

Dustin: I'm not empowered or self-empowered to actually do it. I know the transition I want to make. I know the mindset or the identity I need to step into, but my behaviors among other things, are not necessarily reflecting that. And so, yeah, love that. At the end of this episode.

Dustin: We're going to get real practical because I know people might be listening, be like, wow, this is a lot of stuff and it is if you're stepping into these sort of issues, that's why I really just was fascinated in talking with Chris and we're going to get a little bit here a moment into your background.

Dustin: So just sort of give people a path, where this conversation may go. We've talked a little bit now about what you do. I want to talk about who you typically work with, then I really want to dig into why, and I think this would be really fascinating in your case, because, I bet you have a very rich story behind why you do this, and then we'll get into sort of a practical application and some things people could do, perhaps to work with you.

Dustin: But, even if choose [00:07:00] to address some of this on their own and start to make some first steps. So, with that context, Chris, who do you love to work with with the type of work that you do? And then we'll get more into the why you've been drawn into this.

Chris: Oh, I love it. Okay. So like compound questions there.

Dustin: So first of all, who, that should be a fairly simple answer.

Chris: So the, who is, generally speaking, people at six figures, 10,000 a month minimum, generally is when they come to me. That goes all the way up to seven figures and eight figures. The who isn't really about income. It's more about the point of transition. It's people Who have attempted a transition and failed or have burned down the business and don't want to repeat that.

Chris: Or they are feeling that internal resistance and it's slowing down the greater they get. Just ready for that next step, that next level, that next whatever it is. For some people, it's not even business. It's not even income. It's more about their relationships and, [00:08:00] healing, trust issues, but it's about helping people achieve that which they haven't yet achieved.

Chris: Helping people receive into their lives something they've never had before, which can raise a lot of stuff from identity and past wounds. And it's just that ability to kind of lead into the next question you asked, why.

Dustin: Yeah. Let's get into the Chris origin story here and how you got drawn into this, I see as a real combination of, sciences and art and skill sets and, psychology and mindset and identity work and, social work in a sense. So yeah, I would, would love to hear.

Dustin: Where all this came from for you.

Chris: Absolutely. It's all of that. So what really fills me up is being able to open a door that they can't open to, be able to facilitate somebody's transition, to save time, to save money, to save effort, and to most of all save problems and risks and pitfalls of them going backwards, I'd say a lot of, clients past and present, have come to me after taking a massive loss [00:09:00] after, or they have just about built up to what they were before, and they're starting to feel that desire to burn it down and to, go live in the woods.

Chris: So, which is what many people have said, living in the woods, go live in the desert, give everyone their money back. When people have these big launches and the best month ever, and then they immediately freak out, that's usually when they start to think, Oh, maybe it's a mindset thing.

Chris: Maybe I need to up level myself. As for why I do what I do, that goes all the way back to my background. We spoke about this, briefly on our last call, that was just you and I. I've had a lot of trauma in my life and a lot of challenges. I was not this clear on who I am. I was definitely not this confident in who I am.

Chris: I had a lot of problems with consistency. I've complex ADHD, which I finally have a diagnosis for. So I have a lot of issues with consistency, with confidence, with clarity, being able to see the vision and being able to have that real deep ingrained belief that I can achieve that vision.[00:10:00]

Chris: A difference between knowing you're capable and truly believing that it's yours for the taking,

Dustin: I love that knowing versus believing has a distinction. I don't think many of us, internalize nearly enough. So what did that look like for you? was there something you knew, but you just didn't have the belief and then that's what started pulling you into this journey for yourself.

Chris: I mean, we're going to get into the, five business archetypes, a bit later, but I was very much a sage. I went into my own intelligence, as a means of, safety security. So I got very, very good at studying things and learning things and being able, as you said, to draw connections between, know, 15 different things and, speak to someone and ask very particular questions.

Chris: We're talking about people who have had coaching for the last 10 or 20 years they're still saying things to me like no one has ever asked me that particular question on that particular thing. And it's just because I don't know, maybe I'm just wired that way to be able to see this, kind of blueprint.

Chris: Then I see the gap in that [00:11:00] blueprint and I asked the question on where I see the gap. That's all it really is. At least in the exploration phase. As to why, it's a great question. There's an old saying that says, you are what you do. I don't believe this. I think you do what you are. Sure, here's the text in the correct paragraph form:

Dustin: And you got the whenever they flagged this tape to pull out an introduction, it's going to be like, which of these quotes are they going to pull? Cause I like that one a lot too. That's great. So

Chris: That's it. You do what you are. I learned this first when I was in the military. I spent 15 years in the army. I transferred from the artillery, the Royal Artillery to the military police, from the military police I went into, IT and, from there I went into criminal intelligence, and then from there I went into communications data and, analytics and all these really fun sneaky beaky things.

Chris: I learned as I kind of went along that very particular personalities were drawn to very particular jobs. You always found them in very particular places. I was like, okay, okay. I've always been an observer of people. That's something that I've always just been ingrained. and again, this has come from what I call a trauma gift.

Chris: It's when you have received a certain type of trauma. The gift as it were, when you cultivate it and you work at it, is the ability to read people, the ability to observe people first. It comes from a very unhealthy, hyper vigilance place. But if you heal and if you work on yourself, and if you resolve and integrate that wound, it becomes just this gift, because don't lose the ability to read people and to watch people and to take it all in and all these things.

Chris: So it remains a gift. But I've always had this ability to kind of see patterns people's behavior, in, if I do this, will they do that? I also lack massive social skills when I was younger. So I had to kind of learn people, from a very intellectual point of view. Like if I said this, they'd react like this.

Chris: If I said this, they'd react like this. If I said this, but in a different way, it changes their reaction. And I was like, but if I do this to that person. It's totally different, and I'd be obsessed with like, but what's the difference? Why is it working for that person and not this person? Because I've always kind of looked at human behavior like that, and this kind of, but why?

Chris: Why is it, if I line up ten people and say the exact same thing, will they all receive it a different way? Well, they all then do a different thing. So I guess the why I do what I do is, twofold one, because it's who I am. What I do is an extension of who I am. It's my natural trauma gifts that have been cultivated.

Chris: I've learned that I get a great amount of fulfillment when I see people in places that they couldn't have or maybe wouldn't have been there quite so fast or so easily without me, I get a huge amount of fulfillment there, but more than business or financial, I literally just got off a coaching debrief, call just before this the relationships that have never been more trusting and more intimate.

Chris: The relationships and the understanding of their children that have never been closer. These are things that once you get like six figures to seven, it's a lot of focus on the financial, the growth, the scale, the status. Very often, not always, but very often, once it's kind of seven figures or there, or thereabouts.

Chris: It becomes much more about the fulfillment, the peace, the feeling of flow, not wanting to wake up anxious and stressed and overwhelmed and all these sorts of things, not wanting your first thought in the morning to be about money and the structure of the business and what the project and who's going to pull you in what direction.

Chris: So it's really about. Developing peace and all of that for the higher levels.

Dustin: A pause there. Would imagine for many of our listeners and people that are in my target market, that what you just said really resonated, resonated with me personally, this idea of when you reach a certain level of financial success or. Foundational financial success where you don't have to worry about paying your bills and it becomes more of a strategic decision on what you're doing in your business.

Dustin: I think it's very natural to then start to crave rather than security, start to Create more like fulfillment and peace, and it's a different identity,

Chris: And this is the transition that I'm talking about the transition of not just of life situation, but the transition of focus the transition of priorities when someone's priorities change, it's like the blueprint that they've been working to all this time. It's not that it completely ceases to be important, but what we find is what I found is.

Chris: Passion and drive tend to go down. When that happens, I've seen people burning down seven figure businesses with no requirement to do it. They could sell it on, they could package it. They could get in the COO, but they burn it down instead. because they are quote unquote, misaligned now.

Chris: It doesn't fill them with the same passion and desire as it once did. So they come to this very natural, assumption that this is just maybe not for me anymore and nothing could be further from the truth. It's that they have just achieved this new level of being, but they can't recognize how to transition into that and not waste and ruin things that they've spent a lifetime sometimes creating and building.

Dustin: Wow. That's fascinating. Well, I want to progress the conversation forward and talk more about where you're at with your business and where you want to take it. But there's one thing I want to just dig into a little bit deeper okay with you. because it ties to a previous episode, and that is this idea of a trauma gift.

Dustin: I find that as a very intriguing, name, a trauma gift. and specifically in a previous episode, Cassie Shea, a client of mine really helped me unpack my own story. We talked a lot in there about. Values and how our values should be tied to our businesses and how our top values typically come from vacuums, right?

Dustin: And this idea that something in our past, often our childhood creates a vacuum. And then as we lean into that, and we learn to overcome that, we become very. really gifted at, addressing that it becomes part of our value system.

Chris: absolutely. and I love that you shared the thing with Cassie, and I've spoke to Cassie, since we spoke. she's lovely by the way. so one of the biggest things is first of all, we tend to become the person we needed as a child.

Chris: so and also love languages are very often.

Chris: tied to the vacuum of what we didn't receive in our younger years. So, if we receive lots of words of affirmation and lots of praise, it can go one of two ways. Either we get addicted to that thing. for a long time, I believed personally, I had a wound and a belief. The attention was love and love was attention, which means that anytime the attention stopped, I started feeling unloved, which is bonkers, because, of course, my partner doesn't just stop loving me when they leave the room or when they're focused on something else.

Chris: it's not like the love just stopped. so it creates a lot of unhealthy coping mechanisms when you have beliefs like that. your love language can come from what you received and you kind of become addicted to it. or it can come from a vacuum of something you didn't receive. , and as I said, you tend to become the adult that your child self needed. so if you didn't feel safe as a child and you really needed, about that fantasy of, your future self traveling back in time to mentor you, and look after you and take care of you, I know I did for a long time I was just like wishing that one day, a future more savvy.

Version of me could come back in time and prepare me be like, Hey, watch out for this. maybe you shouldn't say shit like that. And things like that. but of course that never happens and you know, I'm yet to see portal where some older version of me walks through. but I think in part we can do that where we can look forward in time and we can think about how we want to progress and all this kind of stuff.

Dustin: so there's various different kinds of trauma. there's connection trauma, there's autonomy, if your autonomy is being taken from you as a child. if you didn't have much bandwidth or ability to voice your own opinions, and expression. There's attunement trauma. If you're constantly being the caregiver of your parents or other people, you become this very caring nature.

Chris: but it's very difficult for you to tie it to really tune in to what you need. again, we're going to archetypes in a bit later

Dustin: people are like, man, there's so much in my own past here to unpack, I think. When Chris talks about archetypes, it'll help kind of tie a bow around this to at least give you a starting point for how to start addressing, some of these things from your past that are now informing your present and your future.

Chris: So, connection to others trust. , if you were betrayed, especially by people who were supposed to protect you, that's going to cause a real issue. , so achievement, autonomy, connection, trust, and sex and love, , are generally five, types that I focus on what these produce is first of all, a kind of desire. if I can just tangent for just a second, there's a thing in storytelling about a hero and a villain, and a villain, I think, didn't we talk about this,

Dustin: I'm a story brand guide. So this whole idea of archetypes and stories and, this hero's journey is, I think what you're starting to allude to with the and the villain, but yeah,

Chris: maybe,

Chris: maybe, maybe, Generally, a villain will have some kind of a scar, a limp, or something to hurt them. something to show that they've had something horrible happen. the mentality goes that a villain says, the world hurt me, so I'm gonna hurt them back.

Chris: I'm gonna make sure no one can ever hurt me again, I'm not gonna care if I hurt others, but I will not be hurt again. And becomes very self focused. see this a lot in narcissistic behavior. people adapt in that way. a very unhealthy way, quite often. Or addictive behavior, things like that. Then the hero can often go through a virtually identical Pain or problem, but they come out of it saying the world hurt me so badly, and I'm going to make sure it can't hurt anyone like it hurt me.

And this is where generally I find a lot of coaches, a lot of business owners, a lot of entrepreneurs who wake up in the morning and say, I just want to make sure that no one ever has to go through what I went through. feeling like an outcast. That was one for me as well. Feeling like an outcast, feeling like you don't have a sense of belonging, like you don't have a group, you can't really fit in anywhere.

Chris: You're not realizing that that could be a trust wound and you're not allowing yourself to fit in anywhere because you don't want to be discarded and betrayed. You so very few people actually know the thing under the thing under the thing. but they know the top level, which is what I talk about. so you have the hero and the villain, and they both have this different driver.

Dustin: Great! Let me know if there's anything else I can help with!

Dustin: Want to. Add a third character to this, to this story. So you have the hero and the villain and in the story brand language, we would say that we also have a guide. So, the hero business or the hero in our story is our customer. There's often a villain though.

Dustin: That's sort of like, you don't want to be like this person. You do want to be. Like this person and how you're serving the world and in our role. And I know this, you're, very much in this role, even if you maybe don't have those words, you're a guide to so many heroes, and I'm a guide to so many heroes, meaning I've been there, done that, had some of these experiences.

Dustin: And what that's generated for me is actually empathy. And that empathy is my superpower and helping other people along their own path, for me, that might be marketing and business strategy for you. That's obviously this deep work, this identity work and this mindset work. It's really interesting to hear you use, your background and the words and the characters, and it fits hand in glove with a lot of the things we talk about with story brand and the fact that you need to be a guide.

Dustin: Not the hero [00:24:00] in your own, business story as a coach, consultant or service provider. And so, yeah, love the interplay there. And the other tidbit I want to add, from my own experience in this before we move on is this whole idea of the vacuum value and even the love language.

Dustin: This, literally something that happened last week. And so this is well past the interview that I recorded with Cassie that we referenced. So one of my big vacuums that we unpacked is. And the fact that I was very isolated as a child and had, some, father wounds and some trauma there.

Dustin: How that's manifested as a gift in recent years is I've become like a super connector and a really good facilitator of community. And so last week for me, it was really special because I was at pod fest and Orlando and actually getting to speak. But made it really special is the fact that my seven figure leap mastermind group, which Cassie is in, we all got to meet in person for the first time ever.

Dustin: Had a really cool mastermind dinner. Cassie was there. So for those that had heard that episode, John Mies was there. Who's another previous guest. And I cannot tell you the [00:25:00] sense of fulfillment that gave me to have that physical connection and kind of build a point at something real and be like, my childhood trauma has resulted in my ability to give this gift to others.

Dustin: It's extremely fulfilling. And as you might guess, I love language in the five level languages, by Gary Chapman is words of affirmation. So when people are filling the room and there's like Dustin, I'm so grateful you brought us here and Dustin did this and Dustin's great for that. And that was amazing.

Dustin: So. Chris, though, I'm going to keep it real here with the audience. So I get home Saturday night, my wife picks me up from the airport. It's pretty quiet. Sunday goes along. and by Sunday afternoon, she says something to the effect of, I have to be really honest with you, Dustin. Like, I feel a little resentful of your business right now.

Dustin: And I was like, let's talk about that a little bit more, you know, and the reason the moment, there's some different things going on emotionally, our, son's leaving for the military, and eight days. So I'm sure that played into it in a, big way, but the key was her love language is quality time.

Dustin: And. I've been gone and I was gone another week before that speaking on [00:26:00] a different event. So I've just been gone and she actually said the words, you've been gone getting your love tank filled. Everyone's talking about how great your experience that you provided and this wonderful mastermind you're speaking on stage.

Dustin: Well, I'm here alone with kids and missing you. And I'm like, so I'm now overcorrecting and making sure I'm spending every possible minute filling her love tank with quality time. , but we have the tools and the language to be able to communicate that because of a lot of the work that we've done in our marriage.

Dustin: So lot of these things that you just said is like, this literally just happened to me like two days ago. so I wanted to share that, Chris. and I think at this point, I want to. Advance the conversation a little bit so we can get to your practical takeaways with the archetypes. But before that, what I like to do, since pretty much everyone we interview is an entrepreneur, including yourself, just kind of give us a snapshot of what's your business look like right now?

Dustin: is it all one on one coaching? how many clients do you have so that you can also then say what's next if you look 135 years in the future? are you moving towards? what would be your ideal business status, [00:27:00] if you will?

Chris: Oh, well, I definitely want to get back to what you were just saying. Um, I definitely want to get, cause I've made a couple of notes. So I really want to touch on, so for me, I mainly work, especially at the higher levels with one to one. but don't take very many clients per year, so it's, quite exclusive.

Chris: I really focus on who I can get the best results with and who's really receptive and open to it, , versus the people who think they're open to it and want to be open to it. There is a difference. I do have a group program called the Rise Experience. that's for, more mass, but even then I'm actually limiting that to a certain number of people in that any one time because I don't want it to be so scaled that people don't get their needs met and their questions answered.

Chris: Cause I want to keep it as an experience. Then of course I have the scaled online courses and the self study stuff. so it's really kind of, I've, tried to hit it on three different, angles. I'm also doubling down [00:28:00] on as many platforms as I can, because my main thing is really about.

Chris: Bringing that healing light that permission and reassurance and Love for lack of a better word to people who have learned to find other ways to meet certain needs through business or status or financial or whatever. when actually it's they're in a child and.

Chris: much deeper need that needs to be satisfied to truly be free to have the ripple effect that they are actually capable of. so my real message is that of love. When I really get down to I'm a bit of a, softie when it comes to that. So,

Dustin: I love it. So we got a really good snapshot. Do you got one on one group? And then you've got the very scalable DIY sort of programs for people. Do you just want to keep doing more of the same or do you see an evolution in your business?

Dustin: what's your next step?

Chris: So for future, there's gonna be a lot more speaking. I wanna do a lot more speaking both. [00:29:00] like this, on different people's platforms, to coaching retainers and different people's, coaching, programs, holding workshops. I want to reach as many people as humanly possible. My goal is a million people.

Dustin: Now we're getting somewhere with this.

Chris: Yeah. Within that, it's really about reaching a people. And at some point when it's ready, I want to start teaching other people to do what I do the way I do it. So there will be an accreditation on coaching my way, coaching the Atomic Growth way. But right now, that's not quite dialed in, my opinion, enough.

Chris: There is still room for improvement there. My main focus, like I say, is on building up the group. Helping as many people as humanly possible, retainer deals, and speaking events.

Dustin: I love it. Yeah. We often try to let people define their seven-figure impact or the seven-figure leap. Yours is really clear. It's seven figures of people, right? It's a million people reached and impacted with your work. And I love the idea of accreditation or certification as a way to exponentially grow your impact.

Dustin: That's gonna be part of my next evolution with my company as well.

Chris: Absolutely, I love that. I learned early on that financial goals don't work very well for me. When I've tried to hit $10,000,000 a month, $100,000 a month, it didn't work. Because once you've kind of gone through your basic needs and then some, money is not a very good motivator.

Dustin: Yeah.

Chris: With money, I'll tell you this.

Dustin: Yeah. And people that are not there yet are probably like, "That's crazy," but people who are past that line, I kind of referenced that line earlier, whatever you want to call it, like beyond your actual needs, plus most of your wants, it does just kind of lose its luster as a motivation tool.

Chris: Not just that, I actually did a post in a friend's group of entrepreneurs, and I said once, something along the lines of, "Once you have the status and the financials and the reputation and everything else, you'll realize that that wasn't actually what you wanted and what you needed." So it's one of those, I think Jim Carrey said some version of that where he's like, "I want everyone to get this so they realize that it's not it," and that caused a lot more of a stir than I thought it would, a lot of people that were upset by that. And I'm like, "What do you mean?"

Dustin: So once you get there and you realize that you still haven't filled your whole—

Chris: Exactly.

Chris: And they go out and they try to get a certain amount of money, and when that amount of money doesn't fulfill them in a certain way, they think, rather than I've aimed at the wrong target, they say maybe the target wasn't big enough and then they go to the next one and the next one and the next one, and they're constantly chasing and nothing ever really fulfills them and it can actually become very, very depressing.

Chris: It can cause us this terrible depression. For some people, it goes as far as suicidal ideation (SI) where they just become almost hopeless because they're like, "Well, I've tried everything and my life still feels empty." It peaks for a bit and then it just goes away. This is why, again, that value-based living, but you've got to know your values and you've got to know where they come from. If your values come from trauma, then you're really only doing coping mechanisms to deal with the symptoms of the trauma. You're not actually living to healthy values.

So one of the things that I was going to mention about this is beware of over identifying or over attaching to pride-based behaviors. And it goes into the archetype, so it kind of flows in quite naturally.

People who really pride themselves on how much they can do for others, really pride themselves on their ability to fight fires and solve problems. I saw a great post by a friend of mine literally today, perfectly worded as like, "Beware of taking too much pride in being a firefighter because you may become an arsonist."

People who take their pride, their sense of value from what they give to others or the problems they solve tend to create that problem later on where they seek out people—you see this in relationships all the time. If you pride yourself on your ability to make your partner feel loved, very often you pair up with people who have a vacuum of love. Unfortunately, that can very often be a very unhealthy bucket with holes in it, and it doesn't matter how much love you pour into them, it's never enough.

But you feel like you're doing what you should be doing, and it can get very unhealthy if you over identify and over attach to those behaviors, the pride-based behaviors, the ones that you actually feel good about having. The key for people listening and wondering if there's a healthy version is removing the attachment, because of course there is nothing wrong with being able to plan and prepare, something I call the strategist.

There's nothing wrong with being a planner, preparer, someone who develops ideas and learns and builds on their craft.

Dustin: At this point, is the strategist one of the archetypes?

Chris: It is. See how I've segued into that?

Dustin: Yeah, it's perfect because I imagine with these archetypes, you'll give a description and there's the positive version of it, the negative version of it, depending on if you have an attachment or some of these other issues. So, yeah, Chris, I'm going to be taking notes here myself, but what are the 5 archetypes and just kind of run us through each one for us?

Chris: Amazing. Okay, so here we go. There's the strategist, the experimentalist, the trailblazer, the sage, and the caregiver.

Dustin: And it wasn't obvious, we've transitioned into the last segment of the show here. This is the practical application of the SMART strategy, as we like to call it. So you can go do something with what you've learned from Chris today. So yeah, please unpack this a bit more for us.

Chris: Absolutely. Like I said, the positive behavior, there's nothing wrong with this. If you're not over attaching your identity to it, you're not developing your sense of worth from it. and it's something that you enjoy doing. There's value aligned, but if you don't do it, it's not [00:35:00] causing too much pain and problems within you.

Chris: And, your desire to do it or your need to do it hasn't become like this really strong need. rather than a designer. So, the strategist is the planner, the preparer, they like to learn, build up their skills. it can become a little bit perfectionist. but ultimately it's someone who just likes to have their, shit in order.

Chris: they like to make sure that they've, got everything that they need to get done. they're very practical, very logical. where this turns into a problem is where it becomes this really bad fear of failure. Perfectionism, procrastination, they are symptoms of a fear of failure. And a fear of failure is a symptom in itself.

Chris: It's not the thing. A lot of people think it's the thing. Fear of failure is a symptom of fearing that you're not going to measure up. That you're not going to be good enough. That it's going to fail and that will mean something about you. You know that you're a strategist and the problem [00:36:00] Area when you are planning, preparing and doesn't have to be about everything.

Chris: It could just be about one bit. worked with someone once who was on about 30, 000 generating 30, 000 a month, give or take, after working with me, we got her to 100, 000 a month and now she's got a 4. 2 million business, which is amazing. I'm really proud of it, but this is one of hers. In many areas of her life, she was great, she was brilliant, she went from idea to action super fast, but for one piece, just the group program, she had developed this thing into a work of art.

Chris: It had a workshop, it had workbooks, everything, and she would not launch it. Likewise, she wouldn't raise her prices beyond 20, 000 for a one to one. She was overbooked. she had a lot of demand, but she was in this kind of fear of failure, fear of it reflecting back on her.

Chris: So, yeah, strategies about fear of failure. , and by the way, if anyone wants to learn more about these, they can take the [00:37:00] quiz. I'll give you the link to share that. Now they can take the quiz on my website, atomicgrowth. co. uk. and they can go through the quiz and find themselves and get all this information plus a lot more. so yeah, strategists all about fear of failure. They'll plan and prepare, plan and prepare.

And then when they get right to the edge of action, they'll plan and prepare a little bit more. these ones tend to go, from marketing coach to marketing coach, to marketing coach, to service coach, to marketing coach.

Chris: then you have the experimentalist. Experimentalists. I'm a bit of an experimentalist at times. They love to be a math scientist. They love to develop, they love to test, they love to change. They like to make that quick changes. They love to see what's exciting and what's cool. but very often they can fall into a need for novelty, coming from a lot of the time, a fear of commitment.

Chris: And a fear of losing their autonomy because God forbid they nailed down one idea and now they're stuck with it and they can no longer [00:38:00] change and all this kind of stuff. So, very often an experimentalist, if they're in an unhealthy part, they'll keep saying this is someone who changes their niche, changes their offer every other week.

Chris: maybe that's an exaggeration, but every time they'll put out an offer, they'll never launch the same program to us.

Dustin: Everything's new They get no skill or no repeatability in their business as a result. Yeah,

Chris: that's it, and now innovation is what sets you apart, but repetition is what builds the business,

Chris: you know, consistent repetition, is what actually builds a business and if you lack consistent repetition, you're never going to go beyond a certain point. It's always going to be fluctuating in the same area, never above. Then the trailblazer

Chris: trailblazers, pride themselves on when I say I'm going to do something, I blooming well do it. Nothing's going to get in my way, I'm going to find a way or make the way, I'm tough, I'm focused, nothing can stop me.

Chris: And they really take pride in that [00:39:00] kind of, I am unstoppable. The problem with that is that it has a flip side, and the flip side of that is the fear. If I stop, I could lose everything. If I stop, I lose my sense of self. I lose my purpose. I can't slow down and spend more time with my wife because this person needs my help and that person needs my help and this person needs my, my say so on this thing or whatever. And so they get, these are the people that are divorced three times. , they have a multi million dollar business. They are winning at life to everybody else.

But in the back, their relationships are struggling, their health is struggling, , they've got stress and anxiety, like they are in a bad way. But they need to keep showing up in a certain way, and they kind of get tied and, imprisoned by the image and the self that they have portrayed and created.

Chris: And now they have to keep it up. So anyone stuck in the trailblazer in the unhealthy version, like I say, having a healthy work [00:40:00] ethic, great having grit and determination, amazing resilience, brilliant. Needing to have those things or else you lose your value and worth. problem.

Dustin: Pushing and pushing and pushing and never be able to let off the gas.

Chris: so there's the burnout, there's the exhaustion,

Dustin: journey.

Chris: frenetic energy, anxiety, all of the things.

Chris: Oh,

Dustin: let's, talk about the stage.

Chris: a lot of people have. The sage is so smart. The sage loves to be smart. The sage is very studious, doesn't want to put out anything that's half baked, similar to the strategist, but as a slightly different driver. They don't want to put out anything half baked. They want to make sure everything's correct and the results are virtually guaranteed, if not guaranteed.

Chris: They will not launch something unless they definitely, definitely, definitely will achieve the result. This is a problem and the reason that it's the sage and not a [00:41:00] strategist or et cetera, is because their fear is not a failure. Their fear is the fear of losing their identity. Because they base their identity on their knowledge, on their expertise, on their ability to solve problems. And if they put something out, and then they not only don't get people saying, that was amazing, this is great, you're such a great provider, you're such this, you're such that, whatever they're, the thing they need to hear is, if they don't receive that.

Chris: Then it's a failure, and it's a reflection on them, and all these things. Okay, so what they do is they tend to keep perfecting, keep perfecting, keep perfecting. Or they'll put it out, but they'll really control the extent of people who see it.

Chris: So they won't put it out on Facebook they won't really expand their reach.

Chris: They'll, put it out to just their audience. So people

Chris: who

Chris: already,

Dustin: they know are going to say, you're really smart. This

Chris: there you go. The people who already know, like, and trust them so that they do not [00:42:00] risk having someone of a reputable source, someone who they respect, someone who they hold authority over coming back to them saying, you are wrong.

Chris: you are wrong in who you are, because that's what they mean here.

Dustin: That's what they feel. Yeah,

Chris: That's right. So you are wrong. You're this, that, and the other. And the last one, very, very quickly, I see you closing down. The last one is the caretaker. focus on others, caring about people is great. If you need to do it, you're going to give up on your boundaries and you're going to get resentful of people.

Chris: and you're always going to be there worried about what people think of you, , and the judgment and disapproval. And that causes major issues, both with your team and with your clients. And everything else.

Dustin: I'm sure you're going through those people are thinking not only of themselves, but some of their clients. I thought of my mom, but that last one, and some of the, trauma gifts that have made her this caretaker, in some cases to an extreme and to a detriment, this amazing, there's a lot to unpack. I mean,

Chris: there could be a [00:43:00] whole podcast just on that.

Dustin: Chris and I, we could.

Dustin: I'm sure we will. We could talk for hours about any one of these topics, but I think this is a wonderful place to wrap it up actually send people over to let them start this journey with you and through your resource with the archetype quiz. So if you go to atomic growth. Dot C O dot U K for those of us in the U S , it's a little different than what we're usually talking through on a URL, but atomic growth dot C O dot U K you right at the top of the menu on the homepage is take the business archetype quiz.

Dustin: So that's going to be my next step, because I'm really fascinated. I kind of hear inklings of a couple of different things in there, and I'm really excited to go through and personalize this experience. Chris, this has been amazing. I want to thank you. For your time, obviously would direct people to the quiz as a next step.

Dustin: If they

Dustin: got value and they want to go deeper.

Chris: every archetype has a particular path to heal and work on and all of it. Because they all have different issues so they all need a particular path to solve that issue.

Dustin: So where else, we try to stick with one call to action. People know, go take the quiz. but any other, platforms or, events or anything else [00:44:00] you'd like to share with the

Chris: If you can find a platform that I am not on, I'll be impressed. Uh, oh no, YouTube! YouTube I haven't quite cracked yet. But you can find me on TikTok, on Facebook, I have a page and a profile, you're welcome to follow any one of those. I'm on Instagram. I will send you, if I haven't already, all of the links to add to the description for people to click on and go to.

Chris: or if they take the business archetypes, thing that we added to the News weekly newsletter, which has all of my social media links in there as well.

Dustin: We'll have all of your links in the show notes, but if you're listening and you're like, what's next? Just remember atomic growth and look up atomic growth.

Dustin: co. uk.

Dustin: All right, Chris. Well, thanks man. I'm super grateful for the time and the insight it's been very fulfilling and it's got my wheels turning about.

Dustin: Some of these identity issues and some of the things that I'm stepping into. And so I'm going to go take the business archetype quiz and encourage the audience to do the same. And I'll look forward to having you on a future episode to unpack some more of this

Dustin: goodness for the audience. So thanks again for your [00:45:00] time.

Chris: Yeah. Thank you very much.

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