The Creator Flywheel Strategy That Changed My Business

Dustin: [00:00:00] Welcome back to the seven freely podcast. It's been a while since I've done a solo episode. I've been getting a ton of great feedback on these episodes, but we've also had just like an amazing run of guests. So I am very excited to give you a real time breakdown of an experience that I just had. I literally just got back.
Dustin: This morning from Boise, Idaho. And you may say, what are you doing in Boise, Idaho? Well, I was featured on the Nathan Berry podcast and I learned a lot in the process and took a lot of actionable strategies away that I think you could actually implement in your business. And so I wanted to share more sort of behind the scenes of the experience and break down Nathan Barry's podcasting flywheel, the way that I experienced it and the way that, I viewed it, You know, with a little bit of reflection.
Dustin: So if you're not familiar with Nathan, he's an amazing guy, sort of a mentor from afar from me. He runs a company called Kit. You may have heard of it before the rebrand, it was called ConvertKit. It's about a $40 million a year software business who, are focused [00:01:00] primarily on email marketing. And of course they do way more than that, with their company.
Dustin: But that's their core thing. They serve creators and they help them, basically, you know, grow their business with an amazing email platform. And I'm a kit customer. So that is who Nathan is primarily, but he also has a personal brand and the Nathan Berry show, the Nathan Berry podcast is tied directly to his personal brand and.
Dustin: In that personal brand, he also has a program called creator flywheels. So it's kind of what you need to know for context. If you're not already a Nathan Berry fan, I was already an Nathan Berry fan, but I'm a much bigger one after being there and experiencing it. So you're like, maybe thinking you're on a podcast.
Dustin: Again, why are you in Boise? Well, that's part of the magic of how they do this show is everything's done in studio. And so what I want to first go through, pretty quickly is how I got on the show. That's probably your first question. It was sort of the first question I asked myself. I was like, how in the world did I pull this off?
Dustin: And then two is the flywheel that I experienced and the way that I would break that down and some of the things I'm going to [00:02:00] change in my own business as a result of this experience that I just had. So how did I get on the show? Well, I've done episodes before on basically how to leverage communities to get opportunities.
Dustin: And in that case, I mostly talked about how to get new clients. The other thing I've talked about is being the best case study for anything that you invest in. So if you're going to invest in a coaching program, a membership, an in person experience, whatever that might be, Do the stuff that they tell you to do and be their best case study, and it has a very high likelihood that you're going to attract attention and be able to grow a relationship from that.
Dustin: So, in this case, it was sort of a blend of the 2. So, again, I've been a customer for quite a long time. And I went to crafting commerce last year. That is their in person conference that they host. And that was a really cool experience. But, you know, I shook Nathan's hand. I'm sure I had no idea who I was based on just being there at the conference.
Dustin: I was one of many 100 people there and I wasn't speaking or anything. However, Nathan opened a group coaching program Q4 of 2024 and I joined and [00:03:00] it's called creator flywheels and it's a passion project of mine. He is like, very in depth and sophisticated in this idea of creating flywheels for your business.
Dustin: Okay. And I won't get into that whole definition and what that means. He actually wrote an amazing essay on it. So if you look up Nathan Barry flywheels, it'll tell you all you need to know. But I was like, this is something I want to know about. It's actually like a core thing we deliver in our flagship program, the podcast profits accelerator.
Dustin: Effectively, what we're building is a. Marketing flywheel for your business using podcast guesting as the fuel, right? So flywheels are near and dear to my heart, but I knew there's a lot more to learn, and I knew it'd be a great community. So I enrolled in this program's first program I've enrolled in a long time and.
Dustin: You know what? I started, doing the stuff and I attend the group coaching calls, you know, the Nathan host and I was active in the community and I actually created some flywheels. And I was telling Nathan and his really cool marketing director, [00:04:00] Kara, just about my experiences. And so, I
think some name recognition developed as a result of actually doing the work and being active.
Dustin: So that's not really a case study. Okay. It's not really just the community, but I think it's a blend, but it wasn't like they said, Hey, you're here. Like come to Boise. No, they actually have a process for, inviting people or, screening people that might want to be guests. So I did apply. I think I came up with a compelling, hook, you know, compelling thing that I thought would fit well with the show.
Dustin: But I'm sure it really helped that I was a client. And so, of course, I mentioned my application, you know. As a creator flywheels client, I've learned this, and this is what I can share with your audience. And we can talk all about the podcast guesting flywheel that I've created myself and that refined through your program.
Dustin: And so, long story short, I got an email back that said, you're in selected dates, come to Boise. And so, I had, little time to prepare for this trip, but it was literally like an in and out trip. It's good. This is actually going to come [00:05:00] into the firewall discussion, but it's a little side note.
Dustin: If you've never been to Boise, Idaho, I love it. Actually. It's like a beautiful town and just a really, really cool place. And it's really hard to get to. So flying from St. Louis, Rahmat nowhere close to direct flights. So I was able to get it 2 flights to get there and 2 flights to get home, but it was a long, exhausting trip.
Dustin: It's not the type of place that you just get in and out of very quickly. So basically what I meant was to go film. In essence, a one hour podcast interview really required two days of my time. And so, it has to be worth it in other words, right? Well, I knew it was worth it because, you know, I'm going to get to spend an hour with Nathan, get his thoughts on my business, obviously get exposed to
his audience, be on his podcast, all the wonderful things that happen through podcast casting that, of course, I talk a lot about here on the show, but that's how I got on the show.
Dustin: That's sort of the process and how it went down. I want to talk about the details of what I experienced there. And then I want to talk more about breaking this down into a strategy and a flywheel. So the way this happened was I [00:06:00] showed up on a Monday afternoon and I, first went to a dinner. And so they had this really cool restaurant picked out and showed up at at the dinner.
Dustin: With other podcast interviewees. So this is kind of key point. Number one, they batch these. And so they do Monday, Tuesday interviews once a month, and they invite the guest to a dinner. And then Nathan's director of marketing and his director of events, Haley, were both in attendance. And so we got to have a really cool dinner.
Dustin: ended up taking three hours. I don't know if that's typical, but we had some amazing conversations. And I felt like I really got to know the team, got to know Nathan and got to know the other podcast guests, right? So that was a pretty cool thing and kind of step one in the flywheel. And so that was night
one.
Dustin: And then the next day, we were invited to kit studios, which is their, physical location. And they've got five studios set up for different types of content creation. And of course they have a podcast studio that Nathan uses for his show. It's a really neat setup. There's, a typical podcast setup and then they've got this whiteboard.
Dustin: It's really a blackboard, and, [00:07:00] you know, get the sketch and coach and do things live with Nathan as part of the experience. So if you haven't seen his show, highly recommend checking it out on YouTube because there's a very visual component to the episode. So, you know, I was scheduled for an 11 AM, podcast interview.
Dustin: And that was sort of the basics, but there's much more to it. So I want to break down the flywheel. So number one, I'm basically going to go through and think about all the ways that they're leveraging this experience. So on the surface, it's like, Oh, it makes sense. They're going to batch content.
Dustin: Like that's a smart thing to do. Might as well do this once a month and you have a full month of content. Like that totally makes sense. And you know, if you've got the authority and you've got the studio, might as well require people to come in person because. They will and it's for Nathan. He's the CEO of a very successful company for him to devote one full day or, you know, two half days, basically.
Dustin: To come do this for his personal brand, it's got to be super efficient, right? And it's got to have more benefit than just the podcast, which is what I want to unpack. [00:08:00] So number one benefit relationship building. He is basically having top creators come mostly, I would assume mostly kit customers, maybe all kit customers, but they're coming to Boise to his hometown.
Dustin: He's having dinner with them. And he is connecting them with other top creators through this dinner. And of course I was in the studio and our interview times were back to back. So I was basically in the studio with the same people most of the day. And so relationship building was a huge first cog in the flywheel.
Dustin: Number two is of course the premium podcast content. This is very high quality video content, multiple camera angles, teleprompters, great lighting, great sound. And, you know, those are sort of on the surface is like, yeah, okay, you're building a relationship and you get premium content. Like that's what podcasting is in its essence.
Dustin: But this is what this is. But to a new level, because of this three hour dinner the night before and the in studio experience and what they provide. Here's where it gets a little more interesting. After my interview, they said, Hey, Dustin, you're a valued member [00:09:00] of our creator flywheels course. Right.
Dustin: This is, again, kind of my entree into this opportunity. Would you mind filming a testimonial while you're here? And they already had the studio set up, and they already had the questions on the teleprompter, not the answers, but the
questions, like, hey, Tell me about this. Tell me about this. What do you think about this?
Dustin: And I was able to sit down in 10 minutes and create what I think will be a really awesome testimonial for them. So that's a huge value. And now they're getting top creators talking about the creator flywheels course, which is a core part of Nathan's brand that also feeds over into kit. So that's sort of the first.
Dustin: Oh, this is a little different experience here. The next thing I would say, I guess this is number four. We're featuring kit studios as part of the whole thing, right? So the podcast is happening in kit studios, the testimonials in a different room in kit studios. And of course, they're like, Hey, as a kit customer, you get free access.
Dustin: To get studios while you're here, why don't you book a time in one of our rooms and create content? So, my friend John Mies was one of the other interviewees. And so we actually booked a room and we knocked out what will [00:10:00] likely be like brand videos for us, for our own individual companies and we're in kit studios doing it.
Dustin: Right. And so that's pretty cool. Like cause get studios, I should mention, it's not obvious if you're a kit customer, you get free access to kit studios right now. There's one in Boise. They're building one right now in Chicago, and they've got them rolling out the major cities throughout the United States.
Dustin: So that's important, right? Like, they want people to know this is a thing we do for our customers and. It's really high quality. It's really awesome. And so not only do I experience it and it makes me loyal to kit and makes me talk about it on my podcast like I am right now, but it's baked into not only the podcast, but all the content that the creators create while they're there.
Dustin: So kit studios feature number four, number five, I kind of view. This whole thing is like a really strong prequel of craft and commerce, which is their conference. So they host this conference in June in Boise, and it's probably my favorite [00:11:00] conference. It's awesome. Last year was the first year I went, and it was a great experience.
Dustin: And as I mentioned, when I started this, Boise is not easy to get to, right? There's very few direct flights. It's kind of one of those things. And in June, it's in the desert. So in June is hot, right? Like. So it's not the top of people's travel destinations in June, which is, of course, is a busy family vacation month.
Dustin: So I think it's really to their benefit to have people come to Boise and understand. It's not that hard to get to. It's actually an amazing town. It's beautiful airport. Super easy and friendly. Lots of great lodging and places to eat downtown. So I kind of feel like it had I not already been to Boise for craft and commerce.
Dustin: This definitely warmed me up to the idea that This is a place that's actually good to visit, and I would totally come back for an event. It's not nearly as daunting as maybe it seemed when I first heard the conferences of Boise, but also as far as the craft and commerce side of their company. It, effectively serves as a testing ground, I guess, a discovery ground for potential [00:12:00] speakers and workshop participants, because if you have top creators come in on camera with Nathan, I would assume, and I don't, know this, but it would seem to me.
Dustin: That now they have a very good indication of whether you would be good on stage or to host a workshop at crafting commerce. So if you've applied or, you know, maybe you're way more important than me and you're on their
radar for the crafting commerce conference. This is a great. Funnel basically to get speakers and workshop participants as well as obviously attendees to the conference.
Dustin: I felt even though they didn't talk about craft and commerce much, I felt like that was maybe an, unintended positive consequence of doing this and then the. Yeah. Last thing I would say here is just the deepening of the brand affinity for kit, right? So when you walk into Kit Studios, there's Kit everywhere.
Dustin: There's kit coffee mugs, on in the shot. You're greeted by a kit employee. There are portraits on the wall of kit creators. [00:13:00] All the lots of different books on the coffee tables with, again, kit customers who have written books, and they've got these really cool photograph books where they've documented creator stories.
Dustin: So you're very immersed in the kit culture, right? For at least a full day. And so I think that's important, right? Like in an age where software is very competitive, and there's lots of different options. I can tell you that I feel much more comfortable with software. Committed and connected to kit as a result of this experience that I just had.
Dustin: So quick recap on the flywheel. And again, these are sort of like wedges along a circular wheel. If you want to think about it that way, why would Nathan do this podcast in this way? What are the benefits? To his marketing and his brand building number one relationships. So relationships with top creators who come in to be featured, have a dinner with them and then connect them to other top creators.
Dustin: I think that was amazing. Number two, obviously premium podcast content and all the video and all the things that go with that number three, when appropriate. Gathering testimonials. My testimonial was [00:14:00] about the five wheels course, but they could obviously have a top creator come in and do a testimonial for kit while they're in the kit studio.
Dustin: And it's like a kind of a hard thing to say no to. And of course, I was very excited and happy to do that. number four, the kit studios feature. I think that's really smart. Number five, the final one, it's sort of a two for craft and commerce prequel gets you to Boise and Boise.
Dustin: Start to qualify potential speakers and workshop facilitators for that event. I think there's more to this, but right on the nose with a little reflection, I
was like, these are very unique and these are not typical podcast, um, flywheel effects, right? There's lots of other flywheel effects that come with every podcast interview, right?
Dustin: So. we've talked a lot about that. I won't even get into it. There's lots of reasons people do podcast and people are podcast guests, but these are sort of the special ones and the ones that they've done with an exceptional level of class. So what did I take away from that? Well, I'm not anytime soon doing an in person podcast, and I'm don't own a studio and I don't own a software company and I'm not the CEO of a [00:15:00] 40 million company.
Dustin: So how does this apply to me? You know, cause all of that's probably true to you as you're listening. Well, what I took away from it was, of course. Guest interviews are an amazing thing to do as a podcast host. And it's amazing to be interviewed as a podcast guest like that again. That's like the dumb moment.
Dustin: But the fact that Nathan Berry, who's running a 400 million company as a CEO, it takes a day or two out of his extremely busy schedule every month to create podcast content just reinforces to me how good this is and how important
this is. And then to have a whole evening with us at dinner, just like, wow, that is.
Dustin: A level of commitment that would only happen if this was worth it. Right. So that was just a good affirmation for me that like podcasting is awesome. And even the top creators are doing it in a big way. But some of the things I'm actually thinking of, updating as a result, relationship building. So of course I get a great relationship build when I have a guest on my podcast, but I've never actually.
Dustin: [00:16:00] Intentionally connected or network guest to each other. Now I do that on like a one off basis where it's like, oh, I just met you. You're awesome. And I think you should know this person. And I do that every day. I make connections as part of my value add, but not in a regular, mechanism like a flywheel.
Dustin: So again, I'm not hosting a dinner once a month with podcast guests the way that Nathan is able to do that. But what I can do Is invite my podcast guest into a circle into a room and let them connect with each other. My version of that coming out of this experience. I was like, you know what?
Dustin: I already do community networking events. So clients of ours that go through the podcast profits accelerator are part of our community. And every quarter we do these amazing networking events. So all of our alumni are invited to come to these events. And I think now I was like, well, I could totally invite my podcast guests to that quarters event, right?
Dustin: So it's not like an open invitation. It's a community thing. But why not invite these amazing people to our networking event? [00:17:00] That's a benefit to our community. It's a benefit to the individual. And, maybe it shows them what we're about. And maybe they become a client, right? Without even any kind of hard sell, just a taste test of what we do.
Dustin: So it's like, that's really smart. Like I could create the network effect Without a dinner, but with something I'm already doing. Right. So it's like, I don't have to add anything. I just need to extend an invitation to some new people. Another, like, cool thing that I took away from this was Nathan was very, Okay. Artfully, getting coaching from me and I mean that in a way that really highlighted my expertise and I thought that was amazing. And I think something I could do a better job of with our guests is making it feel like we are in the same room, right?
Dustin: Like there's this intimacy of being in the same room with someone and having that dinner the night before and, you know, having that close proximity and we had lunch together before our session and things like that. Like, again, I don't have that, but what I can do is set the stage a little more with the guests to where it feels less like.
Dustin: The guests talking at you as the audience and more, [00:18:00] there could be an element of letting them shine in a way that is like, directly at me, if that makes sense. So there was a point in my interview to this is this will make it make sense where I was teaching my strategy and talking about the five P framework.
Dustin: And I was talking about a client example, and Nathan's like, you know what, I would actually like your input for me. And he said some things about his own podcast guesting experiences. And what was my advice? You know, it was totally off the cuff. I was not like prepared for it was actually I think the best part of the interview.
Dustin: I was like, yeah, I got you. Like, here is this. insight that I can give you. And I feel like that came so much more naturally. And it was sincere, like he
wanted to know it. I had built a level of trust with him, in this overall experience. And I thought that that was really a special thing.
Dustin: And so a takeaway for me was how can I recreate a version of that on my own podcast when I have guests, like how can we. Make sure we have enough time, and sort of the pre discussion and just have the courage basically to be like, use your stuff on [00:19:00] me. Like, let's do this in front of the audience because I think like that's going to really drive this home.
Dustin: And I think Nathan's a very, he's very artful at that. He's like a total amazing expert in his own right, but he's also humble enough to ask for, and I don't know if he does that in every interview. I mean, a lot of the ones I've listened to, he does, there is an element of that. And I thought that was really cool.
Dustin: So. I'm not going to be able to recreate the entire Nathan Berry flywheel and you probably can't either, but I hope there's something in here. This is the sort of relationship building the tie into other offerings and events and networking among peers. And, sort of the style that emerges from this sort of, more intimate experience, you know, as well as I think the big one for me was this amazing opportunity.
Dustin: It's been sitting right in front of me. We got, I don't know, dozens and dozens of just the best people in the world as guests. And I have never invited them to know each other. Right. And so like, that's so easy to do. And it's really part of what I like to do anyway. And it was right in front of me and I didn't see it.
Dustin: So [00:20:00] that's one of the many reasons, I would love to express my gratitude to Nathan Berry for this experience. And, I hope you found this insightful, like just a little behind the scenes, what's it like to go do this and how have they crafted this experience to be extraordinary? And I really think they have, not only for me as a guest, like I felt very valued and it was, Something that was a great use of two days of my time and four flights to get there and losing a lot of sleep, you know, I think in their case, there's tons and tons and tons of residual value, and I'm sure that's very intentional because Nathan's the flywheel guy.
Dustin: So, of course, he's created a cool flywheel. Fueled experience, to creating his, craft, which is his podcast. So hope you enjoyed this. If you have feedback for me, love to hear from you. I get, people reaching out and it's often about some of these solo episodes that like, I really like that.
Dustin: More of this, have you had this experience? And so if you have a question that you'd like me to answer, or you see something, that I'm posting or something I'm doing on LinkedIn or something you hear when I'm on someone else's [00:21:00] podcast, really like to know What's the real story behind that?
Dustin: That's why I love to do. I love to be transparent and just talk about my experiences and let you learn from them. So please reach out. go to LinkedIn and DM me. That's probably the most direct way. And just let me know, Hey, I've listened to your podcast and, here's an insight I got, or here's something I would love for you to address in the future.
Dustin: The other thing I would love to emphasize is the importance of ratings and reviews. it's tough to get people to, rate and review your podcast. And I feel like we put out some amazing content and it's really, really, really simple. It'll literally take you 60 seconds.
Dustin: So if you're on like Apple podcast and you're listening to this, just go scroll down and hit five star rating. And then you can write like a two sentence review. Same thing on Spotify. If you're on YouTube, obviously. Smash that subscribe button and like it. And then leave me a comment there. And my point is that those are also great places to get feedback.
Dustin: If you want us to see, I read everyone and cherish everyone. So thank you so much for, let me share this really cool experience that I just had with Nathan Barry and, look forward to more of these solo episodes in [00:22:00] the future.