The Trust Recession Nobody Warned You About

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Dustin: everyone else was talking about forty thousand, four hundred thousand, you know, these really big, in this case, email lists. You could talk the same of, again, YouTube, LinkedIn, whatever the platform is we're speaking of.
Dustin: But ours was about how we're not focused on big numbers on the, follower count or on the subscriber count in this case. We're focused on how do we leverage the attention that we get to go deeper and deeper and deeper and create trust and create conversations,
Intro/Outru: You're listening to the Seven Figure Leap podcast. We're here to leverage rich relationships and smart strategies to take your business to the next level. Here's your host, Dustin Riechmann
Dustin: [00:01:00] especially if you spend a bunch of time building a social media following. You get up every morning and write, you know, post five days a week, you obsess over engagement rates.
Dustin: You're wondering why your business doesn't grow even though you put so much effort into building your following, your subscribers, et cetera. Um, but the reality is, here's what I've learned, and this is a trend that I've experienced and one that I really see accelerating with the current kind of state of the online world and the online economy at large.
Dustin: Uh, and that is that over and over again in my own business and the people that we work with inside Seven Figure Leap, uh, the most valuable relationships in our businesses almost never actually start with likes and comments and these sort of public displays of, uh, of engagement. They typically start with, like, a direct message, a direct reply to an email that really kind of touches someone, uh, [00:02:00] a booking of a phone call to say, like, "I think we should talk."
Dustin: So I wanna unpack today kind of the distinction here between this idea of followers and relationships. And, um, I have a very real-time example of this, which is why it's so top of mind, and it really played itself out in a recent story. So the real-time example is literally the most recent client that we signed up for our Podcast Profits Accelerator program came from LinkedIn and, you know, I've built a pretty good following at LinkedIn, I think fifteen thousand people or so.
Dustin: And so you're like, "Oh yeah, of course you have a decent following and you got a client from LinkedIn." But what I observed with this particular person, which has become this trend that I've talked about, is he never actually liked a post, like ever. He's never commented, he's never shared. Uh, he's just sort of quietly lurked and watched behind the scenes, and then he reached out directly.
Dustin: And so I [00:03:00] mentioned this to my mastermind last week, and I found out that it's kind of universally true. Like, uh, even people with pretty large social media followings are finding that those people who publicly, publicly engage with their content and sort of fall into that follower count very infrequently buy.
Dustin: It's actually sort of the lurkers, the behind the scenes people who are actually, uh, enrolling in their programs. And so today I want to unpack that a little more, talk about why I believe that it's not a coincidence and really unveiled this reality that we're living in a trust recession. So, uh, the online world is louder than ever.
Dustin: I think we can all agree with that. It's more crowded than it's ever been. I think AI is sort of pouring gasoline on this, you know, lack of attention fire that's been built with all the content that's online. And so attention's really cheap at this point, right? And trust, therefore, is at a premium, and that's this dichotomy [00:04:00] that we're finding.
Dustin: So attention is cheap, so trust is extremely, uh, valuable, and it's really everything. And trust doesn't come from followers. It comes from conversations. So kind of going back to what I said at the top, it's not a bad thing to have followers and to, uh, you know, leverage that for the credibility and the authority and things that it provides.
Dustin: But if you're spending all your time focused on growing a follower count, you're really missing the boat in how to actually grow your business 'cause that comes from conversations, because conversations are what build trust. Right? So these things are all tied together. So kind of a fun story that I'm gonna get into here shortly, uh, is from a f- new friend, uh, Chanelle Basilio from Growth in Reverse.
Dustin: I had an experience recently, uh, with a event that she hosted, and it really drove home, again, this point to me right between the eyes. So, um, so yeah, that's sort of the opening [00:05:00] summary here.
Dustin: So I know that might sting a little bit if you spend your mornings writing posts and, like, checking engagement rates and seeing your social media following or even your email list continue to grow and grow, but it's not reflected in your revenue, right? And if you're feeling that tension of, like, "I'm getting more followers, but my business is not reflecting the impact of that," first of all, I'd like to let you know that I've been there, I've done that, and here's what I've learned.
Dustin: So I've experienced this firsthand. I'm gonna go through some examples today, and I see this trend quickly accelerating over and over again in my own business and in our clients at Seven Figure Leap, and it's that most transactions, I'd say almost all transactions, actually people that become clients and invest in your flagship programs, aren't visibly engaging with you, as followers, right?
Dustin: The best conversations, the best conversions from conversations typically happen behind the scenes. They typically happen with [00:06:00] a direct message, a direct email, someone booking on a calendar and maybe letting you know they've been watching your stuff from afar but not... You know, they're not typically a familiar face, which is interesting, right?
Dustin: And so I just had this happen literally last week. One of our most recent clients came from LinkedIn, and when I went and looked in my LinkedIn for his sort of track record, 'cause I was curious 'cause he wasn't a familiar name, I found that he never liked a post. He'd never commented. He never shared anything that we had done, yet he had been quietly observing from afar what was going on, and he reached out directly when he was ready and wanted to help.
Dustin: And so I actually mentioned this to our mastermind last week, and I found that's pretty much universally true, and all of us agreed that this is something we're seeing more and more of. So today I wanna talk about why that's not a coincidence. I wanna talk about this reality that we're in with this trust recession in the online world as it continues to get louder and more crowded, [00:07:00] and AI kind of pours gas on the fire of, noise that's out there.
Dustin: Because in this environment, attention is cheap and trust is everything. That's one of the big things I want to demonstrate today,and give you some really practical insights into how that's playing out i- in our marketing and our results and our growth here at Seven Figure Leap and again with our clients.
Dustin: trust does not come from followers. Trust comes from conversations. So I'm gonna give you some thoughts today on how to enter into conversations, meaningful conversations, so that you can get more clients instead of more followers. And I'm gonna share a specific story about, one recent conversation that led to one of my favorite business relationships of twenty twenty-six, and it's continued to blossom into some new opportunities, new clients, and kind of a masterclass in what relationship-based marketing actually looks like in practice.
Dustin: So let's dive into it. again, for context of what we're talking about here, I [00:08:00] believe that we are in a trust recession. So the online world has never been louder. There's way more content than ever. There's more coaches, there's more consultants, there's more AI-generated noise out there. and as a result, attention is very cheap Attention is cheap.
Dustin: Trust is never been more, at a premium, so trust is expensive. So that's the, kind of the first thing I want you to sort of think about here. Attention is not worth very much, right? Trust is worth even more because there's so much noise, and if you're a trusted resource, people will definitely gravitate towards you.
Dustin: most entrepreneurs are still optimizing for the wrong metrics. They're optimizing for followers, for likes, for reach, for, like, public subscriber counts, where the real currency, is kind of still ignored, right? The real currency is building relationships that create trust. And as a result, people are busier than ever online and creating all this content, but [00:09:00] they're lonelier than ever in their business because they're not actually building relationships, they're just building these empty follower counts.
Dustin: So this episode is not about social media. and I've talked about that because that's sort of the default, I think, when we talk about marketing and followers is, like, social media stuff. But this is really about how do businesses actually grow. And so that's sort of the context, trust recession, more and more content, cheaper and cheaper sort of, ability to get, quote-unquote, "followers" and, attention, but harder and harder to earn trust.
Dustin: So the big insight here that I would like to share is that, number one, followers are really lagging indicators. it's pretty easy to go out and build up a big follower count, but true followers and people that really are invested in your work and will ultimately want to pay you, for the services you provide are a result of trust, not a path to it, right?
Dustin: And that's a big switch. Like, there was a time in online [00:10:00] marketing where you had a big follower count, and that gave you trust in the marketplace. I really don't feel like that's the way anymore. That's also not how the algorithms, work anymore. the big follower counts are worth much less 'cause, again, that attention at that level is cheap.
Dustin: The trust is what is really at a premium. So when we look at LinkedIn, for example And I kind of alluded to this in my intro. I would say this has been true to some extent for several years, which is like the time I've been on LinkedIn, but it's gotten more and more true, and that is my best clients, the people that come and actually invest with us, typically are never engaging publicly, and it's really, interesting, right?
Dustin: Like we post, and I've got fifteen thousand followers, and we get some pretty good engagement on a lot of our posts, and you'll see some of the same names, or I notice some of the same names, and I see people liking and, you know, loving and celebrating and all that. and then, you know, some people will comment, and some people even share the post, and I [00:11:00] appreciate that, and I think that's cool.
Dustin: but those people are not, almost exclusively are not the same people who purchase from us and then tell us, "We found you on LinkedIn," right? And the same is true of any medium, but LinkedIn's an easy one here 'cause it's the most, close to social media, I guess, than I'm in. So the people who are actually seeking conversation tend to watch quietly and reach out privately.
Dustin: And so I've been observing this, and I brought it up in my mastermind recently, and it was pretty much like a universal truth. They're like, "Yeah, it's like this like lurker economy," right? It's like, people... Like there's value in posting. Like I don't wanna undervalue that. But the follower count and even the number of engagements or the number of comments has almost a reverse correlation to the revenue, and that's the big idea, right?
Dustin: Like the things that grab top of funnel awareness or like high level attention and sort of, quote unquote, "go viral" or [00:12:00] just get a lot of eyeballs and engagement almost never result in the revenue, and the people who consistently engage publicly are almost always different than the people who reach out privately, right?
Dustin: And so that's really interesting. So I think the big shift here from a, content creat- creative standpoint is just stop performing for an audience. Like start investing in people. Do your... Spend your time on these platforms, podcasting, YouTube, LinkedIn, even your email, whatever platforms you wanna, go with here.
Dustin: The idea is the same. Stop performing for an audience, stop chasing follower counts, and start doing activities that drive conversation because the conversations are where the trust is built, and that's ultimately where the conver- the conversions happen, right, into your high ticket programs. So the reason this is so top of mind, besides that, client that came from LinkedIn recently, was [00:13:00] A public sort of, a follower count, fronted event that I was a part of that I wanna, like, talk about that, but then I wanna tell you behind the scenes what really happened, 'cause I think it creates sort of a really interesting meta example.
Dustin: So you may have noticed, you maybe not, I and Seven Figure Leap were recently featured by, Chanelle Basilio, someone I really admire in the newsletter space. so Chanelle runs, Growth in Reverse, and she did this 30-day, it's like 30 Days of Growth Newsletter Challenge. So every day she featured, like, a top creator and gave, like, a really strong email growth tactic or strategy.
Dustin: and I've s- she's done this other, at least one other year 'cause I remember observing it and thinking, "This is really impressive." She puts a ton of work into it. She has, like, a private podcast around it. Like, she does a lot of work with it, and we were featured in that. [00:14:00] and that was really interesting because if you lined up all 30 days of, of creators, ours kind of stood out like a sore thumb 'cause almost every, tactic was about top-level growth, right?
Dustin: It was like how we added 10,000 subscribers or how we tripled our, growth rate or how we did this or that, right? It was all sort of growth Like big number growth sort of focus. and I read them all, like I appreciated that I thought it was really well done, and it was right on brand because Chenelle's brand is growth in reverse.
Dustin: She's built a whole name for herself in the creator space by finding big email accounts, big email newsletters, and then reverse engineering how people created them. So, and I think it's awesome. ours was not about that. Ours was about how we have a relatively tiny email list, and we make a lot of revenue from it.
Dustin: And the-- it was really cool 'cause the whole case study, she did a great job breaking it down, basically concluded with like seven figure leap earns two hundred and eighty-five dollars per year [00:15:00] per subscriber, which is kind of an insane number, right? So with less than four thousand subscribers on our email list, we've got a seven-figure business.
Dustin: All true, and, you know, she interviewed me, and we kind of helped her break that down. So ours was the anomaly 'cause everyone else was talking about forty thousand, four hundred thousand, you know, these really big, in this case, email lists. You could talk the same of, again, YouTube, LinkedIn, whatever the platform is we're speaking of.
Dustin: But ours was about how we're not focused on big numbers on the, follower count or on the subscriber count in this case. We're focused on how do we leverage the attention that we get to go deeper and deeper and deeper and create trust and create conversations, right? See, it's tying back to the topic, at hand today in this episode.
Dustin: So I thought it was really interesting, for one, that we were sort of the, contrarian, take in the 30 days. but the other thing that was interesting is how I got into this newsletter [00:16:00] is because it's like, well, you don't really- one of these things is not like the other. How does this happen? And so y- t- I wanna take you back to last year on LinkedIn, where, you know, I was following Chanelle's work.
Dustin: we had some mutual connections. I thought she was really, I th- I really admired the work that she was doing. And so, I think I reached out to her, and I didn't really get a response. And so I reached out to Dylan, who's her co-host on their podcast, and, you know, developed a rapport with Dylan, and I sort of offered to give something to their community.
Dustin: And it was, you know, in the spirit, ironically, of kinda what has happened, you know, six or nine months later. And I was like, "Hey, you guys talk a lot about these big email accounts. I think it's awesome. if you're ever up for it, like, I would love to break down our strategy, 'cause I think it could be pretty relatable to a lot of your audience."
Dustin: And I think he was kinda like, maybe." It's just not really a good fit. but we, you know, I had a few conversations via DMs with Dylan, and ultimately we got on a [00:17:00] call, and I think he got to see what we were really about. And then I offered to provide a free training to the Growth and Reverse community on podcast guesting, right?
Dustin: Like, something we're pretty uniquely qualified for. And actually, initially, he was like, "Well, I talked to Chanelle. We've already had someone talk about podcast guesting." I said, "I hear you. here's how this is gonna be different," right? 'cause it was all about the same idea of, like, I'm gonna talk about how to do this very intentionally at a very strategic level to where it actually makes money for your business.
Dustin: It's gonna be pretty different than I imagine what you heard in the other presentation. And so they looked at it, and they said, "You know what? That's actually pretty cool. why don't you come do that?" So last year I did a private training in Chanelle's, paid Growth and Reverse community, and I think it went extremely well, and it was very, different.
Dustin: It was very well-received. and that's it, right? So I didn't ask for anything, didn't charge them, just had a great experience and I think, you know, provided some great value and, you know, got to [00:18:00] know Chanelle on a first-name basis by doing that, and I thought it was, you know, I was pretty proud of it.
Dustin: I thought it was a great deposit of a relationship, goodwill. So fast-forward to this year, out of, seemingly out of nowhere, I get an email from Chanelle saying, "Hey, can we feature you in the 30 Days of Growth Challenge?" And I'm like, "Me?" Like "I don't know that we fit." And she's like, "No, you know, like, based on your training, I think this could actually be a really good addition."
Dustin: And so that's how we ended up in the newsletter, and I don't know that anyone knows that, and that's why I wanted to share that here because I think it's a really direct demonstration of what I'm trying to get at in this episode in that we don't actually have big follower numbers. We don't have big newsletter numbers, right?
Dustin: how do we get featured with the other 29 people who do? Well, it's because I not only am talking about this strategy that I think is frankly, the trend and the way of the world, but I actually used it, right? So, I actually formed a [00:19:00] relationship with Dylan and Chanelle and went and served their community, and it resulted in me being featured in this newsletter, which by the way, added a lot of subscribers.
Dustin: and we did get, at least one direct client. Like, someone responded, from that day that went out and said, "Hey, I saw you in Chanelle's newsletter. This is right up... This is sp- preaching to me. you're speaking right b- hitting me right between the eyes with what your strategy's, going through.
Dustin: Can we talk?" And that person, became a client. So we're doing the thing, and, and we're doing it through conversations and through relationships, right? There's... if you hear what I said there was conversation through DMs. There was a conversation on Zoom with Dylan. There was another conversation with Chanelle via DM.
Dustin: There was a conversation with their audience in this private community, and then there was another conversation via email, to kind of queue up what this would look like in the challenge. which led to a direct conversation, not from someone in public, but from someone who responded to an email [00:20:00] and said, "This is something I need to know more about.
Dustin: Can we have a call?" And then they bought, our premium program. So That pays the bills. So, followers don't pay the bills, conversations do. And so the whole idea here is I wanna just kinda build up to this point, to share a simple framework with you so you can actually put this into practice. What I want you to do is stop chasing followers and stop catering to the social media platforms and algorithms and feeding that machine.
Dustin: What I want you to do instead is focus on chasing conversations with high-quality, people that could be potential clients of yours, right? And so we got four steps here. It's gonna be really simple, but it's the exact playbook that I follow, and it's the exact playbook that we apply to podcast guesting.
Dustin: Like, this is the core way of building business through relationships, and it starts with driving conversations with interested people [00:21:00] by speaking to them versus trying to speak to the broad sort of crowd, anonymous crowd out there, that gets captured in follower counts. So four steps. Step one, today you can do this.
Dustin: identify three people in your sphere, like in your space, who serve your audience, but in a way that doesn't compete with you. Okay? So who do you see around you that serves your ideal clients, serves your audience in a way that doesn't directly compete with you? That's exactly what I did with the Chanelle example, right?
Dustin: we both serve creators, but they're serving on how to build big email lists, and I'm serving on how to, use podcast guesting in this example to build trust and get clients. Those things complement each other quite well. so number one, find three of those people. and you know, if you need help with that, I'll tell you at the end of today's, episode how to book a call, and we can strategize on that with you.
Dustin: But number one, identify three people in your space. Number [00:22:00] two Approach those individuals with a genuine offer of value. Again, no pitch. this is a extension of goodwill, right? so lead with a genuine offer of value, like a guest training, a referral, a connection, a resource, and ask for nothing. So you've got these three people.
Dustin: You're like, "Hey, these three people all serve my ideal clients in a way that's complementary to what I do. Let me think about, and maybe read some of their stuff, and observe what they're up to, and see where I can add some value, and I'm just gonna offer that to them, and I'm gonna ask for nothing." That's step two.
Dustin: Step three, that's gonna generate, in many cases, a conversation, right? You're gonna deliver the value or maybe to deliver the value, you're gonna have a conversation with this individual. so have that conversation, right? Get on the call. Show up. Be fully helpful and human, and, just deliver your unique gift to that person.
Dustin: That's step three. [00:23:00] And then step four is just to let that naturally compound, right? Don't force the next step. Just stay in relationship, and what you'll see is inevitably the law of reciprocity kicks in, and this person will say, "I wanna help you," right? Or, "That was so helpful. I need to share this with other people," and they're gonna send you a referral, or they're gonna ask you to be a featured expert in their thing, or they're going to ask you to speak at their event, or they're gonna ask you to be a featured guest expert in their mastermind.
Dustin: Like this is kind of like our whole world here, right? So again, four steps. Number one, identify three people in your space you can serve with your expertise that don't compete with you. Two, offer to serve them with a genuine offer of value. Service first, no strings attached, no ask. Number three, have a great conversation with them to deliver that value or to talk about more in depth how you're gonna deliver that value and, you know, [00:24:00] do that with excellence.
Dustin: And number four, sit back and reap the benefits, right? Like let it compound. Don't force the next step. Don't actually ask for anything, and you'll get exactly what you want, which is more relationships, more clients, more referrals, more partnerships. and if you think about those four steps at a high level, there's lots of ways to apply them.
Dustin: I just told you exactly how I did this exact four-step process with Chanelle through, primarily through like LinkedIn DMs, but this is the podcast guesting strategy that we teach. It's this, right? The numbers change 'cause we're gonna do more than three, but we're identifying hosts with podcasts that serve our audience in a way that doesn't compete with us.
Dustin: We're gonna show up, lead with genuine value, which is typically, in this case, teaching, sharing a framework, offering a free, lead magnet with no strings attached. Then we're going to, have a conversation, which in this case would be deliver the goods on the podcast, but then, you know, we do a [00:25:00] lot of things after that to create a deeper relationship with the host, with the listeners, with the other guests that have been on that podcast.
Dustin: So we're quickly compounding this in podcasting because we've got this so dialed in as a system. which leads me to four, let it compound, right? Like, you build a flywheel effect from it, and it continues to pay dividends over and over and over again for a very long time. But those are the four steps, and you don't have to do it on podcasts.
Dustin: You can just go do it today with people in your email list, with people in your church, with people on LinkedIn, with, you know, people at an event that you're going to. This is a universally applicable way to build relationships, build trust through the power of conversation. Because one conversation won't necessarily change your business, but the right conversation with the right person at the right time absolutely will.
Dustin: And the best way to find those conversations and reap the benefits from them is to do them intentionally and repeatedly, right? This [00:26:00] becomes, like, the way that you do business. it pays many dividends, as evidenced by our growth, our clients' growth, the success of, you know, our Podcast Profits Accelerator clients, and this very example that I'm talking about today with, Chanelle and with the Growth in Reverse community.
Dustin: So in closing here, we are in a trust recession. Conversations are the only currency that compounds, and what I want you to do, I gave you those four steps, but what I really want you to do to make this, like, micro-commitment to yourself is right now, as I'm closing out this episode, I want you to think of one person, like one real human, that you've been thinking about, you've been meaning to reach out to, and we're not gonna reach out to pitch them.
Dustin: I want you to actually right now pause this recording, probably holding your phone, DM them, text them, email them, however you can get ahold of them. Don't pitch them. Just start a conversation with them and offer something of genuine value to them. If you do that today, that's [00:27:00] the whole assignment.
Dustin: You're gonna win because this is gonna turn into, an amazing opportunity for you. So with that, if you do wanna do this and you're like You know what? This is kind of music to my ears. I'm kind of sick of chasing these algorithms and creating a bunch of content for platforms that don't care about me, and the follower counts are feeling pretty empty at this point.
Dustin: I really just want to do the thing I'm an expert at and let that serve as my marketing, and I wanna do that through building relationships and generating high-quality conversations, which has been the whole point, today. If that is something you wanna do, of course, that is what we do. I have a free resource for you.
Dustin: it's our Podcast Profits Playbook. It's the premium podcast guesting playbook specifically. And it's gonna take you through a five-step process to basically do exactly what I've been describing today, specifically on podcast as a guest, right? so if you wanna get access to that, it's completely free.
Dustin: Our model here is basically give you all of the, all the step-by-step knowledge we have for [00:28:00] free, and then you're probably gonna get that and wanna go deeper, or you may wanna be in community, you may want my personal help, you may just wanna get this done super fast with, you know, a guaranteed return on your time, money, and energy.
Dustin: That's what we, you know, people pay us for. But the core knowledge is here for you for free, and you just go to 7figureleap.com/playbook, and you can go and download that and use it to your heart's content. It's gonna really put into practice exactly what we've been talking about today on this episode. So stop following or stop chasing followers.
Dustin: Start chasing conversations because the conversations are what actually pays your bills, not the followers. And if you wanna get started with that and apply our methodology for this, which we've been using for over four years with clients and over six years for myself, it's just 7figureleap.com/playbook.
Dustin: And I will see you, inside when you get in and start applying that and start responding to me and start having conversations with us, about all the cool stuff that you're doing w- as [00:29:00] you're building relationships for your business.