Why Your Promotion Made You Miserable (And What to Do About It) with Aisha Crumbine

Aisha: [00:00:00] I often say I work with people who have been the first, the only, and the often underestimated. and because there's a certain responsibility that comes with being a cycle breaker and being a first generation breakout.
Aisha: and so I think that's my space.
Intro: You are listening to the seven Figure Leap podcast. We're here to leverage rich relationships and smart strategies to take your business to the next. Here's your host, Dustin Reman.
Dustin: Welcome back to the said Figure Elite podcast. I'm really excited. We have our next edition in our coaching series today.
Dustin: and if you haven't tuned into one of these before, we get to really get to know in a deep way, an amazing entrepreneur, really understand where they're at, where they want to go, and do my very best to help give them a clear roadmap on how to achieve those goals. So, [00:01:00] Aisha Crumbine is my guest today, Aisha, and I feel like we've known each other for several years, on the internet.
Dustin: but I think this is the first time that we've had at least this opportunity, to go in depth and talk about the business. So, Aisha, welcome please. Yeah, take a few minutes, just sort of introduce yourself to the listeners so they have some context on, who are you and what do you do in the world?
Dustin: And then we'll start, zooming into the business itself.
Aisha: Awesome. one, thank you for having me. I shimmied a little bit when I saw this email come in my inbox. I have been both in spaces with you and then watching you kind of online in your magic around podcast guesting. So one, thank you for doing this with me.
Aisha: in my work, I work with people who are quite, I assume like the two of us who are either first time entrepreneurs and by first time, I mean like the first in our families to be entrepreneurs, or first time executives who really had this idea of what success would look like and sound like and feel like, and then they achieved [00:02:00] it.
Aisha: And it wasn't that, and many of my people don't know how to navigate that feeling. They don't know what it means. I often refer to it as the false peak of success. Like if you've ever done any rock climbing, you climb up, I did this in Colorado Springs. There was this, like this mountain in Colorado Springs.
Aisha: And then you get to this false peak and you're like, wait, this isn't the. I have more climbing. Why am I on this mountain? What am I, and so like, I help people when they get to that place, like what do they doing?
Intro: Yeah.
Dustin: Last year I was in Breckenridge, Colorado, and we hiked a fourteener and we get outta the tree line and we get like, I'm like, this has to be it, right?
Dustin: Like, we're, oh, I can't breathe. And we get up and I'm like, oh. And you look and there's a whole nother peak that you have to hit. So that, I think that's a beautiful, analogy and way to put that. And I've definitely experienced that. And, and, it's really cool that's where you focus.
Dustin: So yeah. What's the name of the business and, yeah, just we'll get into more like specific offers, but a little more of the name of the business, how long you've been doing this, just so I can get a [00:03:00] little better feel for, the experience level here.
Aisha: Yeah. So the name of the business is Beyond Success.
Aisha: and I have been doing this part of it for the last two years. Prior to that I was doing, general coaching and DARE to Lead coaching. So I've been trained by Brene Brown and her Dare to Lead Framework, and so I facilitated that work and still do with corporate, clients. So corporate clients on the Dare to Lead side.
Aisha: And then my individual work and cohort work is with Beyond Success, and that's been more the last two years. Mm-hmm.
Dustin: So still some corporate, income and, Going towards the Dare to lead Brene Brown, certified coaching. But the focus today and the, and your real path forward is on beyond success, which is your direct coaching to entrepreneurs and executives, especially those who are experiencing this for the first time, really in their family and in a sort of a change in the multi-generational, identity of their family lineage.
Dustin: I know [00:04:00] that, that's definitely my story. And it sounds like it's yours too.
Aisha: Yeah. I often say I work with people who have been the first, the only, and the often underestimated. Right. So, and because there's a certain responsibility that comes with being a cycle breaker and being a first generation breakout.
Aisha: and so I think that, like, that's my space.
Dustin: Yeah. That's so good. Well, let's get a little. you get our hands dirty a little bit here and, yeah. Talk a little bit like, and again, realizing you have, some other things, that you're working on too. But like with this business, this focus, what's the last 12 months look like in terms of revenue and, how much, time and energy you've put into that.
Dustin: And then we'll start getting more into like offers and what you charge and how you function in, in leading this.
Aisha: Yeah, so I'm right. I'm probably right at a hundred K in, in this side of the business. but it's fluctuated a lot in the last couple of years. I think things were just [00:05:00] social media and that kind of marketing machine was just a little bit more fluid and everybody was kind of online and then things tapered off.
Aisha: And so that a hundred k has been a hard fought. A hundred K,
Dustin: scrappy the last 12 months. Oh,
Aisha: oh. Just scrappy.
Dustin: Yeah. The lead flow was less, sounds like it became less predictable and social media algorithms changed and the things that were working kind of dried up. And so you've been kind of hand to hand combat finding the right clients over the past year.
Dustin: Is that fair?
Aisha: Spot on. Spot on. And I am definitely over the battle because that's just not the energy that I like to operate in. I really want to meet my people in a spacious way. And that hand-to-hand combat that you mentioned, it's just, it's not how I like to show up and it's not like how I like to meet my people.
Dustin: Yeah. Okay. Yeah, and that's the reason I had words for that is that's very common. we hear a lot from people that. the world changes. of course it's [00:06:00] changed dramatically over the past year, even with, AI and the, just the dominance of algorithms and it's just really hard to just, or organically get people coming to you.
Dustin: Like SEO's completely dried up and changed. And so the good news is there's a lot of things we can do about that, which we'll obviously get to here shortly. So a hundred k very solid, hasn't been as easy as it maybe has in years prior to that. So let's get into offers. So how can people work with you? Are there multiple of those or is there just one, but yet, like, talk to me about how you, transact with people in order to give them that transformation.
Dustin: You do.
Aisha: Yeah. So there are three ways that I work with people. my primary is my Beyond Success cohort. It is a 12 week, really like beautiful transformational experience. We begin with a three day retreat, like an all inclusive. On the Ground Unplugged retreat because my people [00:07:00] are used to going and doing all the time.
Aisha: and so we do three, three days together, and then we spend the remaining 12 weeks kind of unfolding and becoming the person, living into our new definition. And that offer is between 12 and 15. 12, if it's early bird and 15 if you kind of miss the early bird window.
Dustin: Okay. So 12 to 15 K thousand? Yes.
Aisha: Yes.
Dustin: yeah. Got it.
Aisha: and those are really intimate, so it's like five to eight people per cohort. and then the second way is one-on-one, and that is more of a, like a shorter three month engagement if people are just navigating a particular shift. They want kind of some side by side coaching. And so that is just like individualized support.
Aisha: and I am rolling out, fingers crossed, rolling out,a more robust partnership. And this I think is something that speaks to more of my senior executives who want something that's a little bit more bespoke, a little bit more private, [00:08:00] where they spend, they retreat with me here in Portugal for three days and that's a one-on-one.
Aisha: And then we do six to 12 months of ongoing support. and that is more for people who are sitting in senior leadership positions who want more one-on-one support over time because they are really making a radical shift in their lives and they just want somebody to walk alongside them through that.
Dustin: Okay, so we might call that just to keep these three things straight, like an intensive, yeah, one-on-one intensive. So you have the cohort, which sounds like sort of the preferred bread and butter. You've really put a lot of, energy into that. I know we met in a season where you were developing that.
Dustin: And so it starts with a three day retreat. it's 12 weeks of small group support, five to eight people, 12 to 15 K offer. Then we have one-on-one three months. Typically, obviously people can renew, but that's more that custom, one-on-one,support that's not in a group. And in [00:09:00] the third, which is emerging as a new offer is this idea of what you call partnership or an intensive, where they also start with a retreat, which I think is a really cool, differentiator and value proposition.
Dustin: But that's a one-on-one retreat with you in your, local sphere there where you guys, live in Portugal. And then six to 12 months of ongoing support. So I know you have a set price point for the cohort. is there, are there set price points for the one-on-one work? Either the one-on-one coaching or the intensive?
Aisha: Yeah, the one-on-one and six K for the three months. And then the bespoke partnership is 15 K for the retreat. And then 30 5K if they do six months, and then they can re-up for the second six months for 12 at a slightly reduced rate.
Dustin: Nice. So really, high ticket, but very high touch obviously as well.
Dustin: And I know the third one's new, but when you look at the a hundred K over the [00:10:00] preceding 12 months, what's the rough breakdown between the first two as far as like this much came from cohort, this much came from one-on-one.
Aisha: Yeah. Two thirds of that came from one-on-one. last year was the first year that I launched the cohort.
Aisha: And so that was my first go round. loved it. And it didn't include a retreat. And so I know that with the, and I've done retreats in the past, so adding the retreat to it just felt really seamless for me.
Dustin: Yeah. Just sidebar or side question, with the retreat for a given cohort, be located just what's most proximate to the members or would they all come to Portugal or is it usually in US, or how does that work?
Aisha: So yes, the cohort retreats are in, they've been in Austin, so I host those at marival in Austin, which is like an all inclusive unplug. Everybody is there really for the same reason, to get closer to themselves, and it is the [00:11:00] most spacious, expansive, quiet experience. It's my favorite.
Dustin: Okay, and have you, this is going to get into more of the future, but actually this,I'll park that question because I don't wanna, I wanna keep us focused. So we got the one year snapshot really clear, a hundred KA third came from cohorts, which was new. Two thirds came from one-on-one. That's sort of the legacy offer.
Dustin: And then the brand new offers the be bespoke intensive that hasn't, just hasn't happened yet, but it's now part of the offer mix, so fingers crossed it will happen. so as we look forward, and I usually give people flexibility, one year, some people have laser clarity on three years. So sort of as far out as you can, realistically see.
Dustin: I'd love to hear more about the goals, like how much revenue do you want to be doing? What do you want the split between these three offers to look like? And obviously this isn't, dialed in. We're not, there's [00:12:00] no commitments here, but just sort of give a feel for me and for the audience of like, where's this going versus where we know it's at right now?
Aisha: Yeah. I'd like to, I have an aversion to numbers because I really don't like who numbers make me become, like, pursuit of them. So I'm, I, what I tend to do is I try to think about how many people I'd like to serve over the course of the year, right? So if I am with the cohort as my, like bread and butter, my, my core offer, I'd really love anywhere between 20 and 30 women.
Aisha: And I say women, I'm not partial, like whoever. 20 and 30, which means that, up to three or four cohorts a year.
Dustin: Okay.
Aisha: That would delight me.
Dustin: Yeah.
Aisha: And then
Dustin: that would be, 300,not to talk about numbers, but that would be,
Aisha: I don't mind, we're gonna talk about all the [00:13:00] things. Let's do it.
Dustin: Hundred to $400,000 in revenue. It sounds like if you had 20 to 30 women doing the 15 K using round math if I'm,
Aisha: yeah. Yeah.
Dustin: Doing that live correctly. So,
Aisha: yeah. And then four, I'd love to do one,
Aisha: no more than four, like no more than four of my bespoke partnerships because those are like deep, high touch. and so if we're talking about. One of them, one retreat plus six months, that's a 50 k commitment on their part. I think two in my first year just to help me, like get my legs under me and to like get my arms around them and what they need and to support them at the level that I want to.
Aisha: I think two in the first year would be great. And then, so in terms of like big [00:14:00] rocks, those are my two. and then everything else, like whatever else comes from either the, what I think will be sun setting, the individualized support, like I think you'll eventually sunset that. and I can see a world in which, like, I will do like smaller workshop things just because I love teaching, but I almost don't even wanna count that.
Aisha: Like, I just wanna set that off to the side 'cause that's later.
Dustin: Yeah. Or that serve as a function as more of a front end offer. It's not the core offer. Right. that's important to kind of say out loud. What we're really talking about are the core offers, the 80, 90% of the revenue, the things you're known for, your signature programs.
Dustin: we can always have a book or do a, workshop or do a paid in-person, speaking event. and like what you just said, I don't really count those in my financial projections. They serve a different role. they're to create customers more so than to like. create revenue.
Dustin: Right. so I think that's great. So the, where this [00:15:00] is going is sunset, one-on-one traditional coaching clients to the extent possible, and instead being able to film more cohorts because you absolutely love that experience, in the first taste that you got of it. You love doing retreats obviously, and that's part of that.
Dustin: and then one or two bespoke clients because those are very intensive and you don't have the capacity to do too many of those 'cause they're very high touch. is that a good summary? And then the question I started to ask earlier, and I withheld it until now, is you obviously have a, a passion for the retreat experience and you see the power in that.
Dustin: And right now that's bundled into the cohorts and a group retreat, and it's also bundled into the bespoke coaching intensive as a one-on-one experience. Do you ever see a scenario where the retreat would be a standalone offer? I,
Aisha: I knew you were gonna ask me that. yeah, when I actually first started, coaching, [00:16:00] like individual coaching in this way, I actually started with retreats and it was just a retreat and I loved it so much.
Aisha: And then when I launched it the next go round, I realized that people like the retreat is just kind of the beginning, and then you need the integration support. so I could see a world in which I do the retreat as a standalone with an asterisk. Like this is where you get the introduction to yourself and then what, like you have to go back into your life and you still need the support as you become.
Aisha: And so I could see it as somewhat of a Costco sample.
Dustin: I was gonna say it's a useful but incomplete solution to the core issues, but having it in the mix as a, again, it kind of goes into the bucket of what we were saying with workshops. It could function more as a front end [00:17:00] offer, right? Where it's a standalone thing and hey, for $2,000 or $5,000 or whatever that number is, come experience a three day retreat with us.
Dustin: and just give you an, little insight in what we're doing. So in our mastermind, it's an ongoing mastermind and people pay monthly to be in that, included in that twice a year or three person, or three day in-person retreats. And up until now, for the first three years, the only way to come to the retreat is if you're a member, right?
Dustin: so it was treated as sort of a add-on. It's like, Hey, this is also a cool benefit of being in the Mastermind. What we realized is there's a lot of people who have a hunger for an in-person retreat, and they don't, they're not aware yet that they actually need the Mastermind. And what we're doing for the first time ever, next month with our next retreat is we're just starting with two.
Dustin: We're selling two sort of, at large tickets, to people in our community where it's like, no obligation to anything else, but you can come just to the retreat for $2,000. And our hope, of course, is they [00:18:00] get there. the other master, everyone else in there is in the mastermind. And so they get a taste for the transformation, the people, the energy, and they're like.
Dustin: Oh, I gotta keep going. And it's like, okay, well here's how you join the Mastermind, right? So the people we're inviting to the retreat are potential mastermind members, but they don't have to make this big choice of like, oh, I'm committing to a mastermind and all the logistics and all the things involved, I just get to come for three days to a retreat.
Dustin: And, and so it, it is exactly what you said, a Costco sample, but also a very valuable one, right? It's not just a throwaway. And so I think that could be in the mix as we're moving the strategy here next of promoting the retreat only, not really as like what you want it, you don't want it to be in a retreat only, but it meeting the person where they're at, like, I don't know exactly what I need, but man, three days in Austin with some people in similar circumstances and getting aisha's, guidance and that sounds pretty awesome.
Dustin: I can commit to that. And then when they're there and [00:19:00] they're with other people from a cohort and know, or who have been in a cohort. Like that could be the thing that pulls more people into the cohort without thinking it's 15,000, I gotta commit for 12 weeks. the cohort's a big commitment on their part.
Dustin: Maybe. Maybe the retreat becomes an easier first step.
Aisha: An easier first. Which is interesting because now that you say that, when I've had retreats in the past, by the end of the first day, people are like, when is the next one? Like, it's like they it, they get into the experience and then it all makes sense versus.
Dustin: Exactly. Once they experience it, they know what they've been missing. But it's hard. I can, I already know with the topic that you cover, it's a hard thing to describe, right? Like, oh, you're an entrepreneur and you've had some, financial success, or you met this first milestone, then you realize it was the false peak.
Dustin: There's so much more. one of the reasons I think, you and I have resonated so well. One of the [00:20:00] ways to do that well is with long form educational content like podcast guessing, but it's still kind of hard to, make tangible for people. And so there are certainly people that will, and you've already done, you've proven that.
Dustin: 'cause at the first cohorts, you didn't even have retreats. But I do think there's an element at play here of try it and then you'll understand. What more is available to you when you, when you spend time and energy in this kind of space with this kind of leader? So, cool. So we've got, I mean, rough math here, not to use too many numbers, but we're kind of talking about a half million dollar business it sounds like, right?
Dustin: Like three to 400,000 in cohort revenue, a hundred thousand, for the bespoke experience, and then some miscellaneous things that would add income to the equation. So does that sound about right? Without fixating on the numbers, like, Hey, if I had a half million dollar business, I'd be, at my actual peak and not my false peak of [00:21:00] what I'm looking for in my own, in, in your own business.
Aisha: I mean, I could actually see myself being a little higher than that, but I'm like, I think I could be okay with that if then the systems were in place. So then support growth, right? So like that feels like a very reasonable starting point.
Dustin: Yeah. Well, good. So the reality is it's like a five x growth, right?
Dustin: And so just,that, that's why I like to have the numbers. It's less about 350,000 or 750,000. It's more about this delta and like what's the gap we need to close to go from our current reality to this very clear vision that you have for what you want. And I didn't really talk about this earlier, but we can talk a little bit more just talking about, 'cause you brought up systems.
Dustin: Do you have any sort of team support right now? Or is it just you? Yeah. Okay. been there, been there myself, of course. You know my [00:22:00] story. so that's good to say out loud and put down on the table because. A $500,000 version of this will probably require some support, right. virtual assistant, executive assistant, someone to help you lead the facilitation or the coordination of the retreats.
Dustin: This, this gets pretty heavy 'cause you're the deliverer of the firsthand value to your clients. And so you'll need some operational support, in other words, and potentially marketing support.
Aisha: And I had an operations person when I first started my business, and she was magic, like just magic.
Aisha: And so I would love to get to a place where I could have that operational support without worrying about the financial part. Like, I just know that it does what it, it's fine.
Dustin: Mm-hmm. It's always the chicken and the egg, right? The, it'd be great to have a full team doing everything right. It'd be great to have a full-time marketing agency or whatever, but
Aisha: I don't know if I want full-time people.
Aisha: I just want like a [00:23:00] person, like I used to lead a fundraising team and I was responsible for raising like $8 million a year. And so, like, I've managed a team. I know what that entails. I don't want that for my lifestyle business.
Dustin: I gotcha. I was sort of throwing out ex extreme examples to basically make the point that whatever we need in terms of money to pay for operations, marketing, systems, software, all that stuff, right?
Dustin: Like it's this balancing act that, because like I always say, like anyone within a month could have a million a seven figure business. Right, because I could dispen, if I wanna make a million dollars, I could go spend $5 million on ads and I could definitely get a million in revenue. I'll have lost $4 million.
Dustin: But, so, but you know, that's obviously an exaggeration. But the point is, we need revenue in order to pay for support, right? So we need more revenue. So a hundred thousand is amazing. It means you have, clarity and product market fit, and you've delivered the cohort experience. So you're way ahead of the game.
Dustin: So what I [00:24:00] wanna talk about now more is about how do we bridge that gap And it's not first and foremost through team, because you have the capacity to deliver. Maybe not the full $500,000 of services, but you can grow to that with some part-time support for sure. And I think I know the answer to this, but it's worth saying because it's not always the answer, but what do you think is the biggest, driver of getting you from a hundred thousand to 500,000 that you don't currently possess?
Aisha: I don't think people know I exist.
Dustin: Yeah. So marketing visibility leads. Yeah. So let's talk about, before we talk about what we're going to do about that, let's talk about this last year. And you mentioned it was a grind and it was hard and things shifted. but let's talk about your experience with lead generation and marketing.
Dustin: So we can talk a little bit in the past just to kinda give context, like what worked when it was easier, but then more importantly, over the past 12 months, where did you find these people to join your first cohort and engage [00:25:00] you in one-on-one coaching?
Aisha: So for the people that I found most recently were through LinkedIn, like they'd been connected with me some for over a long period of time.
Aisha: And some were just relatively new. they're people I'd had conversations with, like just say, let's just connect. I like connected with people on LinkedIn, like legit having conversations with people. And so most of the people that came my way came through LinkedIn most recently. Yes. Part of me is like, that's awesome 'cause that means LinkedIn is actually working.
Aisha: And the people who like historically come to my retreats, like I have people who come to my retreats who I only met on LinkedIn. It was the first time I'd ever laid eyes on them in real life. So LinkedIn works for me or has worked for me, but organic is, inconsistent. It just takes a long time. Like I don't meet people at their level of intention at the moment.[00:26:00]
Aisha: Right. so referrals, LinkedIn have been my two primary drivers historically. in another life I used to run Facebook ads and so I'm not afraid of spending, and at the time I was running Facebook ads because I had a full-time job and I was like, I don't have time to be playing this organic game.
Aisha: Like I'm, I need to hire Facebook, let them be my and more money than time here. You just, you go find the people, bring them. I'll do a webinar. I used to run a weekly webinar, enroll people in my then program, which was different, but that was a different time. Right. So, and a different offer.
Dustin: Okay.
Dustin: So you've done Facebook ads to a weekly webinar for a different offer and a different season with different, Parameters on your side, but also parameters on, the algorithms and meta. But that's good context. I mean, what it tells me is you have experience in conversion messaging, marketing.
Dustin: If you can go from a cold ad [00:27:00] Facebook to a webinar and buy anything, from a stranger on the internet, it means you've got some chops when it comes to that. and then more recently though, it's been this, referrals, which is, typically people's top, top source. And as referrals are great until they're not, because they are inconsistent.
Dustin: You get this great referral partner and then they change their mind or they change their industry, or they have a life circumstance change and you just can't obviously depend on that for growth. It's great when it's there. So on the LinkedIn side, I think what you inferred when you said organic is inconsistent is your, so LinkedIn, there's inbound and sort of outbound.
Dustin: actions there. Right? So do you post on LinkedIn? Is there organic growth in your following? so that's a yes. So you're doing that.
Aisha: I post organically. the growth in my following is really is tapered off. I imagine you've heard about like how the algorithm is shifting and Marty's impressions are,
Dustin: I've experienced that too, so, yes.
Dustin: Yeah. that's pretty common in our circles.
Aisha: Yeah. [00:28:00] so that's, I haven't done, I've only just started to do some outbound, with sales navigator. I'm at the very beginning stages of that, so I don't even have enough data to know what's working and what's not.
Dustin: But when you look at, when you think through, we're not gonna go through all this right now, but when you think through the individuals that paid you money in the past 12 months that originated on LinkedIn, it sounds like a typical scenario is.
Dustin: They've connected you with you through content or comments, or somehow you guys got into each other's sphere or someone connected you as a referral, and then you had more of a posture of, Hey, let's have a call and get to know each other. And you actually meant that and you got on, had a call. And then at some point they're like, you know what?
Dustin: I could, I would actually like to come to your retreat, or I think I, I could really use your help. And they become clients. It's just kind of a slow, inconsistent, way. but it has generated six figures. So I mean, it is effective, but not, not, it could use some more fuel, I guess if that became a strategy that you wanted to go bigger on.
Aisha: Yeah, [00:29:00] it feels very, it feels kind of haphazard.
Dustin: Yeah, I was gonna say random. Yeah.
Aisha: Yeah. It feels like, yeah, it feels haphazard. and not. I try to stay away from like gun references, but I used to go hunting with my dad, and so like it's, it feels like buckshot versus sniper. And I want, like, I want sniper, right?
Aisha: I just want like,
Dustin: I like it. I like it. you're speaking my language. You're, yeah. For the, and you're a Portugal now for those that don't know you're a Texas girl at heart. Right? So that makes sense.
Aisha: Yes. I think that's what I, that's what I'm looking for. Like, just very intentional, precise.
Dustin: Let's talk about that. Let's talk about some ways to do that. So, and to do that, well, I'm gonna ask you some more questions about who you serve and, some of this might be, Hypotheses. And some of these are like, yeah, no, these are like the three, the last three people who paid money are all just like this.
Dustin: but yeah. Let's talk more about your ideal client profile. your [00:30:00] ICP and I'd like to talk secondarily about like an ideal referral profile for the people that do refer you business. So I know you said first generation, entrepreneur or executive, and they've found success, but it hasn't been fulfilling and they're looking for something deeper.
Dustin: But aside from that core transformation, that's like your promise is like, that's what I help you get is, true, a true feeling of success and fulfillment from your work. do these people fall into any other buckets? You mentioned female a few times. I dunno if they're in any industries or any ages or are they uncertain periods of life transition that they're like, now's the time I realized I really want to get this sort of, deeper help that I never pursued in the past.
Aisha: Yeah. I, if I think about my last few clients, they've almost all been nearing 50 or nearing like [00:31:00] 60. I think that's just because they've been in industry for so long that they just like. They're tired of this. almost all of them have been sitting in senior leadership positions. So senior global director of, or general counsel of, or chief marketing officer of, so pretty senior level.
Aisha: and I, they're all female. However, Dustin, this is very fascinating for me. I reached out to two men because I thought, oh, maybe you know, people who might be, and on both of those phone calls, both of the men were like, I think I'm at this place where like I might be the person who would benefit from your services.
Aisha: And it just never dawned on me that. that would be the case for them. or that I think I had, I'd been telling myself a story that men would prefer to work with [00:32:00] men for some reason. I just never even, but in both of those cases, the offer that was put in front of them was to do the work jointly with their wives, to have them do the bespoke experience here with me in Lisbon, because they are both kind of nearing retirement.
Aisha: Their kids are college ages, are either college aged or finished college, and they're thinking about what their life will look like on the other side of that. so I think that's like a different demographic.
Dustin: Yeah. Maybe that's really what the bespoke speaks to is couples were, one of them is in this position, but they want to have a united vision and excitement for what is on the other side.
Dustin: Like, 'cause who doesn't want to go with their spouse to Lisbon and do a retreat and all that. I know my wife would be a lot more excited about a business investment I made if she was coming with me and there was a retreat, on the front end. so that's a really, that's yeah, that's worth, flagging the tape on and like that, that might be a really good signal.
Dustin: In other words, from those two conversations you had. so we go back to sort of the core of the people that [00:33:00] would be best for our cohort in most cases. It did not surprise me at all when you said they're approaching 50, approaching 60, they're in the senior leadership, because. The prime candidates for coaching transformation are typically in periods of transition, right?
Dustin: And so a lot of times when I'm talking about like target market and niche, people are like, oh, they live in this geography, or they have this income, or they're this, whatever, this identity marker. But a lot of times it's more about the intent or the transition that we find them in.
Dustin: That's when people are willing to invest and spend money. 'cause they realize they're in a tense period of transition. So I don't think I really clarified this before. So if the 50-year-old female senior director finds you and she says, oh my gosh, I'm feeling all this consternation. I'm feeling maybe burnt out for the first time.
Dustin: I don't really know what I want to do in my next chapter. And she works with you. What does life look like on the other side? Does she quit her job? Does she become an entrepreneur? Does she get [00:34:00] promoted? Does she retire? like are all those possible outcomes? Like what? What typically happens on the other side of working with you tangibly in their career?
Aisha: I'm Sping because the answer is whatever she wants to do, right? Like, I've had a client who thought she'd always retire as CEO and we had, we worked together very briefly and she was like, I don't even want that anymore. What I really want is to move abroad and start living the more fun, joyful version of my life.
Aisha: And I'm, I wanna say like this week she is moving to the right. Like, and that was her decision. And then I have another client who was a part of the cohort, and she loves her job. She doesn't wanna quit her job. She just wants to do it without the weight of responsibility that she was carrying for all the [00:35:00] other people that she didn't have to.
Aisha: Right. So it's, there isn't one. Specific outcome. The outcome is that you do whatever it is that you want to do in a way you just stop denying yourself.
Dustin: I love it. Okay. That's great. And it's kind of what I thought as I was rattling off the options. I bet. I'm like, I bet he's gonna say, yeah, any of those are fine.
Dustin: it's really what that individual's looking for. and I ask that because. When we get into where we're gonna find these people, if it was all executives who wanna become consultants and start their own business, that's a different place to hang out in that transition than people that are like, no, I want to like change my lifestyle.
Dustin: I wanna change my, the way I show up as a leader at work. Or, maybe I am considering retirement, but now I'm in this period of uncertainty where the thing I thought I always wanted is I'm six months away and I'm scared as hell that this is not actually what I want. and that, and what I'm saying there, that feels more like the, where you're meeting people, right?
Dustin: Yeah. So that's a really [00:36:00] good, mini deep dive, at least on sort of the ICP, the ideal client profile that we're talking to. And I wanna talk just a little bit about IRP or like the ideal referral. Partner profile, right? Like, so when you think of people that do send you clients, do they, are there specific ones that stand out?
Dustin: Are there organizations that send you clients? Are there people that have adjacent sort of expertise or communities? Like what's been your experience around referrals?
Aisha: Honestly, they've been friends, like friends of mine who know what I do, and they come across somebody who is navigating that challenge or standing at that threshold and trying to figure out what to do.
Aisha: I'd love for there to be a fishing in a stocked pond, so to speak.
Dustin: Yeah. Yeah. Who already owns the pond and fishes there for themselves, but they're like, I got room for, I only fish the bass. I need someone that wants to help the bluegill or whatever. [00:37:00] But,
Aisha: but I, yeah.
Dustin: Yeah, but I own this pond and I'd love to invite, Aisha to come over and fish next to me.
Dustin: So yeah, let's ideate on that a little bit. so if, as you think about that, like centers of influence or, I like to think of it like other people who already serve my ideal clients, but they serve them in a different way. Like who already have relationships with multiple of my ideal clients.
Dustin: Does anything come to mind there of like professions or groups or associations or consultants or coaches or anything like that?
Aisha: My first thought was like, financial advisors.
Dustin: Yeah, I was gonna say that too. Like sort of a wealth manager, financial advisor, people who are helping them prepare for whatever that next phase was supposed to be.
Dustin: Retirement or, and managing investments, leaving a legacy. Okay, so financial advisors sounds like a really important one. Because they want, they have relationships with people and they have an intimate relationship. They're dealing with their money, but [00:38:00] they, here on the leading edge, people say things like, Hey, I got all this money, but I don't know what I want to do next.
Dustin: Or, Hey, I don't, I'm thinking about, we want thinking about moving abroad. We don't even know how that would affect our finances. How does that affect our taxes? I'm thinking about taking early retirement, but the projections, is that realistic for me? So these financial advisors have relationships with people in the same transition that you wanna find them when they're 50, 60 years old and they're thinking about, leveraging the assets they've accumulated to fuel their lifestyle.
Dustin: But they started asking questions about the lifestyle and lifestyle design and things that the financial advisor is not equipped to deal with and important with a great referral partner, vice versa. Someone comes into your cohort, they're in a retreat, and they're like, oh my gosh, I just realized I wanna move to the south of France and I wanna do it in six months.
Dustin: And you could, you have a referral partner who's a financial advisor, like, oh, you gotta talk to Jill. She's my [00:39:00] woman. She has helped, she helped me do this. She helps other people do this. Right. So it's a reciprocal relationship. It doesn't have to be, completely quid pro quo or whatever, but it's, it is, that's the incentive for them is like, you also serve their ideal client in a different way than they do.
Aisha: Yeah. Yeah. So I'm no threat to them. I'm not anything away from them.
Dustin: And you're not trying to manage the money, but you're trying to help. Their clients get more joy out of how they spend their money. And you're always gonna be finding people who have money, who have now have new, you're giving them clarity on what they want to do, but they're gonna need a financial professional to help them navigate that and figure out the strategy and the taxes and all this stuff that, that come with that.
Dustin: So that's a really good one. anyone, and that, that might be all we need, but any other sort of, I'm thinking of like, there are more like executive coaches who aren't really dealing with the personal life or the personal ambitions as much as they are, like how to lead the team at work, are like, companies, obviously you [00:40:00] would know more than me, but companies invest in consulting and leadership development and all that kind of stuff so they can do their job better.
Dustin: And a lot of those people have now have relationships inside companies with leaders, but their, it's outside their scope or even their desire to help them with like. What's this individual's next phase of life? and I don't know if there's anything there in fractional consulting, people or leadership consultants, stuff like that.
Dustin: May, may, it's like the Brene Brown or the Dare to Lead version of what you do. if you're doing that in a corporate environment, like you're your own referral partner, but imagine other people who have that level of connection to people, but it's the company paying the bill and you're kind of coming in and being like, I can help them individually answer these deeper questions.
Aisha: It makes me think about when companies do succession planning, right? Like when they are, giving people like packages to exit and people thinking about like [00:41:00] what they wanna do next. I imagine that might be a little bit tougher to pinpoint, but maybe not. Like, maybe it's like your chief people.
Aisha: Officer
Dustin: I like, I think there's really something there. again, I don't, I'm not in that world as much as you have been, but certainly every day there are people being offered financial packages to get outta here early retire, downsizing, emerging ai. Yeah. So imagine if you, Aisha is a resource to the company that says, not only am I going to give you money as a part of our succession plan or, to, to support you as you transition out of this role that you're in, but we have.
Dustin: A coaching resource that we're going to include in your severance package or whatever, right. Again, I don't know how that would be structured and work, but having one relationship with one great [00:42:00] company who's like, we actually really care about our people. We're going through a merger. we've got a, we've been told we have to cut some lead senior leadership positions and rather than only offer people dollars as a severance, we also offer them transition support.
Dustin: I know that's a thing, but like, or if there's an ability to plug into that process where you become a B2B resource that basically is helping people through that and the company's paying you to help their employees through that, does that make sense? So that sounds like a pretty cool opportunity.
Dustin: Okay. Well obviously we could literally probably talk for two more hours about like, referral partners and different ICPs and different. Offers and hooks and things like that to find them. But where I really want to go with our last, 10 minutes or so, is getting really tangible about how do we get, how do we find and capture these high quality leads so that you can have predictable lead flows so that you can [00:43:00] fill cohorts kind of on demand.
Dustin: you didn't really say it out loud, but what I'm inferring is you would like to already just be doing cohorts. You take one-on-one clients because you're getting sporadic interest. And so like, well I don't have, I have one person who wants to work with me. I don't have a cohort, I don't have enough people to fill a cohort.
Dustin: I'll just work with 'em one-on-one. They're gonna pay me. I can help 'em change their life. I really wish I had a cohort they could go into. So the cohort, of course, is great for leverage from your standpoint of time and impact and people get to support each other. The big, the. Trick. the big, missing piece for many businesses is in order to have a cohort, you have to have enough humans waiting to join it.
Dustin: Right. is that a fair kind of summary of where you're at? this is always the part in the show where everyone's like, well, I know he is gonna say next, podcast guesting. Right? So, it's not a, it's not a shocker, but I do think it's, with all that we've talked about, it gives a lot more context, right?
Dustin: About like, where would we be looking for these people when it comes to podcasts or, training [00:44:00] opportunities or other sort of collaboration partners. I have some ideas, but I would love, based on the discussion we've had so far, and thinking about some of these referral partner opportunities, and just thinking through some of your individual clients that you've got sort of organically through LinkedIn, are there any podcast guesting, targets that sort of jumped to mind that you're like, I hadn't really thought about it before this conversation, but now I'm thinking this would be a great place to show up and, teach.
Aisha: I, I don't, but I think that's probably because I just haven't like, fished around in those spaces enough to know where those people are. I mean, I know they're listening to podcasts because they're doing it on the move, like on their morning walks. It's when they're like, they've got their podcasts in, I think all of people tend to have like a spiritual bend, so they're like listening to like Tara Moore's [00:45:00] podcast, but those aren't necessarily guesting podcasts. so I don't know.
Dustin: No, that's good. That's why we're talking. So there's two frameworks I like to pull out here. I was kind of picking out the low hanging fruit if you're like, yeah.
Dustin: As you were talking, I thought, man, this is it. I got this one idea, but, I'd love to help with this. So I got a pretty good picture for this 50-year-old woman who's a senior director and is like, ugh. Like I, there's gotta be more for me. I've got money, but I don't feel successful. so I always think of triggers and symptoms and so we, we know that you can help her deeply with the work that you do.
Dustin: What are some triggers that may have her enter your. Sphere of awareness. Right? And so another way to say that is like, what are some things that would cause her to realize she's got this pain? like a way I would describe this is there are a seemingly infinite number of [00:46:00] 50 to 60-year-old women who are senior directors and companies.
Dustin: We're not trying to go and convince them that they're in a period of transition, they're not feeling successful. There's a lot more to life than what they're experiencing, right? What we wanna find are the people who are already starting to feel that, right? They're already in the transition and they're starting to seek help around this feeling and that the, this problem that they're experiencing, right?
Dustin: So we're finding a, there's been a trigger that has making them aware for the first they have a, so we're not trying, we're they're not necessarily solution aware. So we think of like a funnel, right? So at the very bottom of the funnel, they're solution aware. To the nth degree where they're like, I heard Aisha, she's got what I need.
Dustin: I'm gonna give her $15,000. Like, that's the bottom right. A level up from that it's solution aware of like, I need help in figuring out what I really want, what my purpose is, and how my career ties into that. that's where we're trying to get to because above that, there's problem aware, which is like, oh, like I'm not [00:47:00] fulfilled.
Dustin: I'm not getting the satisfaction for my career. So we obviously wanna start there or below in this funnel. Like what we don't want is the much larger part of the funnel above that, where they meet our demographic, but they have no awareness that there's even a problem. Right? So we need to know they have a problem and maybe even that they are starting to name the problem and seek.
Dustin: information about how to address that problem. and we're using podcasts as a, as one of those vehicles where they may seek that information. So as I started talking about that, any triggers come to mind in your ideal clients' lives where they're gonna like, move down the awareness spectrum from like no awareness to problem aware, to maybe even starting to be more solution aware that they need coaching, for example?
Aisha: Well, I think that the two things come up. One is that nearing retirement, like they're just really at the door of retirement and really wondering what does life after work look [00:48:00] like? and then the second thing
Dustin: is
Aisha: they've either just gotten a promotion or they're about to get a promotion and. They're trying to, and this mirrors like where I was in my life, like it was like, oh, do you wanna be the VP of fundraising over Texas?
Aisha: And I was like, eh, no, I don't.
Dustin: So glad you said that. I want, I wanna keep the flow going. But what I wanted to point out for you and for people listening to this is the best place to find these triggers that I'm talking about, or symptoms or which are like things that happen after they've already been experiencing the problem and they haven't realized what the core problem is.
Dustin: I think we can find enough juice here just in the symptom side. But the best place to look for that is actually in your own story, right? And so you just said it, you're like, it's like me. Like I had this trigger and I was gonna expand that a little bit and see what you thought of it. I'm like, well, you either were offered a promotion, had to make a major choice in your career, or you're facing [00:49:00] retirement or, and, or probably a combo.
Dustin: I'm thinking about moving abroad and I've got this amazing corporate career in my home country, and I'm not sure how to navigate this desire of wanting to experience new culture and life and go live with my family or my spouse or by myself or whatever, in a different, so I think there's a cool intersection here around expat considerations, right?
Dustin: And then the whole career transition of promotion or retirement, potentially intersecting with a desire to change your lifestyle dramatically, including relocating to a different country. That's your story, right? I mean, you did that. So
Aisha: I,I think the p what's p what the pause is for me, I think about my client who wasn't trying to move, like she just, she had just gotten a promotion and then someone in her family was like, what's next?
Aisha: And she was like, just a second. I. Let me be [00:50:00] here because I can't imagine doing more than what I'm doing right now. so I don't wanna go so narrow as to expat, but I guess it doesn't have to be either or. It can be, and it can be people who are doing this and
Dustin: could be this or a combination.
Dustin: Right. and so I'm just starting to think about like really rich platforms for you to be speaking on podcasts, right? With the pond. Yeah. Which ponds are we fishing in? And I think, this executives, reimagining retirement, like there's a really rich source there because we know the people listening to that and look and those can take different forms.
Dustin: There's the financial aspects of that where people are listening to retirement planning, sort of podcast, financial Freedom podcast specifically toward. 50 and up retirement considerations. I think that's actually where a lot of the expat stuff comes in, where people are like, Hey, I'm thinking about retiring in the next five years and, we're curious, what would it look like to do [00:51:00] this in Portugal?
Dustin: What would be the tax implications? Whatever. So they're listening. That's a trigger. A trigger is we're thinking for the first time about healthcare in the future and our retirement, and we're like, we're exploring this. And so there's a lot of podcasts that cater toward, yes, generically preparing for retirement, but even more specifically retirement toward,there's a lot of these, right?
Dustin: So retirement and then I want to be an entrepreneur or retirement toward starting a nonprofit or retirement toward,changing my location, right? Like I, so there's a lot to explore and play with there. So, but that's kinda like bucket one is I'm nearing retirement and it's triggering me to get new education and get more information about the reality of that.
Dustin: Right? And then you have this other pond of people that are, trying to make a good decision about [00:52:00] their own, upward mobility or whatever in the company, right? Like they've been, they're anticipating a promotion or they got a promotion and realized they shouldn't have taken it. and that's more of a playground on, I say all these things sort of, I'm just pulling it outta my rear.
Dustin: 'cause I don't, I'm not the expert in this. You are. But like, the things that come up for me when I think about like someone in that situation is they are, look, they're listening to podcast about career fulfillment and even leadership in a new. In a new position, like, oh, I've never been a senior vp and now I'm listening to try to get wisdom from other people who have navigated this before.
Dustin: And they're asking deeper questions about what do they want and what's their role and how do they lead? And, so
Aisha: something that, that two things you said struck me. One, the re-imagining retirement really resonates. and [00:53:00] then I'm thinking about programs like chief but not chief, right? Like places that women go to navigate positions of leadership.
Aisha: But not in the traditional sense. 'cause most of the women's leadership programs are like, how do you ascend the ladder? And I'm talking about what happens after the ascension. And I think there's a void there. and I wonder if there's a conversation to be had with those people, like, with the people who are talking about ascension and saying like, yes.
Aisha: And what happens after, like, we spend our lives climbing. What happens when there is no more left to climb? Like, what then? And I think that,
Dustin: yeah. Or, the cliche I found out was against the wrong building, or I climbed this ladder, I'm at the top and I see a ladder over here and I don't know how to make that jump.
Dustin: I don't know how to make, fill that gap. yeah. And I think rarely in one session like this, will we come up with like, here's the three podcasts, right? the [00:54:00] intent is more ideation toward. An open an openness to like, oh, these people definitely are seeking and we wanna find them in a transition where they're seeking and what they're seeking.
Dustin: there's a lot of different options we've already identified, but I really like the reimagine retirement sort of sphere for multiple reasons. one, as we talked about, it could just be a pure, finding fulfillment in my existing career as I am. I got three years left and the clock's ticking, and I'm starting to not wanting to go to work every morning and oh man, like this is, this is a new reality for me.
Dustin: I've never felt this way about my career, and I'm looking for more purpose and fulfillment and I don't really know what to do after. I don't know if I wanna work part-time or be a consultant. I can't imagine staying at home all day. There's a lot of career mindset and things around just pure retirement.
Dustin: the other part of this I really like is the people who play in that. Who fish in that same pond are the people we talked about earlier, [00:55:00] financial advisors, wealth managers. and they are gonna, that's their whole job is talking to people, in many cases, depending on their specialty, who are in the season of life, right?
Dustin: And they're gonna be a frontline referral source for you. And a lot of them host podcasts on things around retirement because they're trying to talk to this and attract the same types of people. and I think the other thing I really like about this demographic is it's massive and growing, just in the United States as baby boomers and, people just behind that, there's a couple, I don't know, 6 million of 'em more a day or some crazy number.
Dustin: It's like there's a whole bunch of 'em and there's or 6 million more a year of people hitting 65. Like there's a ton of people in that demographic and it's growing. and then the last thing I like about it and where you wanna. Plant your bullseye in your initial research is something we could talk about further, offline, but there is absolutely intersections here if you want 'em, of people considering retirement and changing countries.[00:56:00]
Dustin: And I think that's a really unique part of your own story, right? So I wouldn't discount that of, hey, if you're a 55-year-old woman, you've had a lot of success,you're lacking fulfillment in these last few years of your career and you're really wanting to get clear on what is my quote unquote retirement, what's my next phase gonna look like?
Dustin: I'm Aisha, I can help. I passed up a promotion to be a VP of all of Texas for the company I was in. And me and my husband relocated to Portugal, and. You may not wanna relocate to Portugal, but you have the freedom to choose what this next chapter is gonna be like. And that's exactly what I help people do.
Dustin: I help 'em get clear, execute a game plan, support them. We're gonna pull you away for a retreat and help you get maybe clear for the first time in your adult life on what do you really want, right? Like that's a powerful message. And that fits on a money podcast about retirement. It fits on an expat planning, what, unre retirement sort of podcast.
Dustin: and it fits [00:57:00] on, a lot of different types of partnerships where it's a financial advisor or like you said, it's like chief but not chief. I'm sure there are lots of, maybe they're faith-based women's leadership councils, associations, conferences. I think like C 12 and it's not, women based specifically, but like Christian leader, sort of environments where they would welcome a message on purpose fulfillment, and how to live out your calling in life beyond your current title and your current promotion or whatever.
Dustin: Right. So any of that starting to feel exciting.
Aisha: My brain is like sizzling right now. there are two things that you said. I was like, I love the freedom to choose your next chapter. Like, I love that.
Dustin: I didn't realize I said it, I just started talking. I'm a verbal process.
Aisha: Yeah. I was like, oh, no. I was like, I was getting all the downloads and then like, I often talk about.
Aisha: This, like whatever's next is [00:58:00] honoring your call. Like it's honoring the calling that you may have like pushed aside because you were trying to navigate the ladder. But I didn't make the connection to like faith-based circles. and it is very spiritual based.
Dustin: Absolutely. You mentioned that a little bit earlier.
Dustin: We didn't talk a lot about that. But the way I like to think about these, opportunities is like we wanna generally focus on one dart board. Okay. I'd like to use this analogy and that DART board, I think in this case is people in transition towards retirement from, or they're in highly successful careers and they're looking at retirement and there's this dartboard in there, right?
Dustin: And then if you think about like the different rings on the dartboard and. Maybe dart board's, not the, maybe it's more like a chess board, but on this board there's different intersections that we could sort of focus on and make. The bullseye is where I was trying to go with this poor analogy. The dart board's important and the bullseye is important because once we [00:59:00] identify the bullseye, we can attract lots of people in different rungs, right?
Dustin: So if we planted our flag in a bullseye, that was like, you're preparing for retirement. You want the freedom to choose, there's a deeper calling on your life, and this last part's the optional part, but it couldn't be included. And you're considering, changing your location as part of that. I, Aisha I've done all those things.
Dustin: This is who I serve. Right.
Aisha: I'm so glad this is recording because like that whole little Diddy that you just did was like, oh, that's beautiful.
Dustin: Well, thank you. That this is what we do. so, yeah, so my encouragement here for you, Aisha, is like, there are plenty of platforms for you to go be a featured expert.
Dustin: I think your personality, your, charisma, your experience, your stories, like you're a natural storyteller. You're, you said you just love teaching. If you just show up and teach in front of your ideal clients, everything else kind of takes care of itself. I fully believe that. So we just need to [01:00:00] find intentional strategic places for you to show up and teach and show the host of those audiences, why they should have you on to talk.
Dustin: And from that, we'll come not only clients, but great referral partners and this consistency that you really want and need to go from a hundred to 500 K in a business model that can be more predictable so that you can run it on a cohort basis. Right. and I think we also came up, I think that's the core thing is like.
Dustin: Identify the bullseye and pursue those platforms to find cohort members. I think the other things we identified as my takeaways here is there may be a really fun, version of this that's the bespoke model for couples in this situation. And I think that could be a really unique differentiator, where, you know, you're supporting two people and so it, the investment sounds more like almost an investment in their marriage, their family, their legacy.
Dustin: It's not just a business expense. It's like, no, we're doing this together. We get to go on a retreat. So I think that could be a really [01:01:00] good differentiator between who's cohort and who's bespoke as like a qualifier. yeah, I mean those, I think those are the main things. And then just this idea of, giving language and specificity, starting to get a lot more specific about.
Dustin: What is the bullseye and where can we access more of those people in that bullseye, which pond is are they in? Right. I like that pond analogy. In this case. what's some of your biggest takeaways as we wrap up
Aisha: there? There was something really powerful about the intersection.
Aisha: Like, I can't wait to go back and listen to the recording. When you were talking about the bullseye, you just said it in a way that connected all of the dots and I couldn't write it fast enough. 'cause I think I was just like, oh, that,
Dustin: so here, I'll say it real briefly. what I intended by that is, a lot of times we talk about target markets, we talk about these ideal client profiles.
Dustin: We tend to talk about their identity. Or their intent, right? So their identity, we've nailed, it's a 40 or 50 to 60-year-old woman who's in the executive position [01:02:00] who has been promoted or getting promoted or thinking about, seriously, about what retirement's gonna look like. There's a lot of rich identity work, and maybe she's a faith, a person of faith, So that's a really tight, definition. It's still extremely broad in the sense there's so many of them, right? Which is good. But I think we layer that on and make an intersection with an intent. That's where this gets really fun and really specific, is like, if their intent is, I wanna leave the United States and live somewhere abroad for at least the first part of our retirement, okay, well now we have like a really glowing intersection, right?
Dustin: Oh, it doesn't have to be that, but it could be. Or I want to get my, I wanna work with my spouse and I want to get hyper. Focused on what is our calling as a couple and as a family and what is the legacy we're gonna leave, and I am committed to making this next season together the best it's ever been.
Dustin: And that's sort of that bespoke intersection, right? and so [01:03:00] you identify these intersections and once you have an intersection to put the bullseye on, I guess this is a better way to do this analogy. We put the bullseye on the intersection. Now you have a dartboard that, not everyone's gonna fit the bullseye, but by speaking to the bullseye, the out of the rings just outside of it still attract people that maybe are two of two or two of the three things that you are in the bullseye, right?
Dustin: Maybe they're a male and they're, Wanting to think about believing abroad, and they're 45, or maybe they're a 60-year-old woman, they have no interest in living abroad, but they're really all about this calling and this idea that they have four years left in this job and they can't bear another day of living an unfulfilled life.
Dustin: So not everyone's gonna be in the bullseye, but the better we can identify a bullseye and an intersection, the more specificity we can have in our language, in our outreach. The ponds become a lot smaller and more robustly packed with the right fish, right? Because like now, we're no longer in a pond talking to Bluegill bass, catfish, and trout.
Dustin: We're only in the trout pond. And I can throw a bear hook in there and catch one. It's a smaller [01:04:00] pond, but I can speak directly to it and I know who owns it, and I can go talk to them as a partner. That's some of the richness that comes from specificity. So,
Aisha: yeah, and I'm thinking like darts, and I'm like, you don't have to hit a bullseye to get points.
Aisha: Like you can still get a lot of points in the rings around the bullseye. So I.
Dustin: Absolutely. And the final analogy I'll leave you with, and we've had a long episode, but I think it's been a really rich one, is,marketing happens in the front store window and sales happen at the back counter.
Dustin: So the other thing I always like to remind people of is you can get really specific with your marketing and who you're trying to reach and what your message is, and people will reach out who aren't that bullseye. And you can always take 'em as a one-on-one client and not be in, you know what I mean?
Dustin: Like, they don't, not every sale has to be only to the exact thing that you market. And so I think that's a relief to some people because they feel, a lot of people feel like, well, if I'm too specific, then no one's gonna come in the store because my, my, my store only speaks to a very specific thing in the front window.
Dustin: But what really happens is people see that and there's some element of it that speaks to them and there's some curiosity and they come [01:05:00] in, they wanna have a conversation. You're like, oh yeah, like. I can't take you as a bespoke client because of X, Y, Z circumstance, but we could totally do a one-on-one coaching for the next three months and here's how that would look.
Dustin: Does that seem like a better fit? So you're making a sale at the back counter, but you still wanna have a very specific front door and marketing message in the front so that you get a steady flow of the right people coming in to talk to you.
Aisha: Yeah. The vignette in the front window is what, like them in with it.
Aisha: Whether they come in and buy the whole furniture set or buy a pillow, they're still, I can still like work with them on that. I appreciate that.
Dustin: Sorry, I interrupted you. You were saying sort of your biggest insights. We talked about the intersection a little more in depth there, but any other kind of takeaways before we tell people how to find you?
Aisha: no. Well, yes, the, I am gonna name a feeling that as you were talking about, like the couples working together on like what their legacy would be like. I was rubbing because I was like, oh, that is like speaking to me. In a way that was a little unexpected, right? It's
Dustin: resonance, it's
Aisha: sance,
Dustin: right
Aisha: vibe.
Dustin: Yeah. So
Aisha: there was something in that. So, I [01:06:00] appreciate that even though that wasn't like a strategy thing, sometimes just like the mirroring is also really powerful. So I appreciate that. where can people find me?
Dustin: Yeah. Yeah. Let's talk. So if someone is a 50-year-old woman and they're like, who is this Aisha?
Dustin: I need, this is exactly what I'm looking for, right? but yeah, just what's the best way for people,to get ahold of you or find more about the work that you do?
Aisha: So I think there are two places. This is probably not Dustin. A pretty Dustin is like one place and then one place. but I have to say LinkedIn 'cause that's where I live.
Aisha: That's just my, like, my home base. So I'm on LinkedIn, Aisha, Reine. and then if you want to know more about like, what it like being at this threshold, this false peak of success, it's aisha reine.com/false peak.
Dustin: False peak. All right. I love it. So yeah, if you wanna get a hold of it, Aisha, easy way.
Dustin: LinkedIn, you're probably the only Aisha crumby. I'm the only bus. The only
Aisha: one, the only one.
Dustin: So hit Aisha on LinkedIn or go [01:07:00] to aisha cine.com/false peak. If you're really interested in this specific topic. that's something I'll definitely check out for myself. So, Aisha, you're awesome. I, this might be our longest coaching episode ever, but I've loved every minute of it and, I'm really grateful to get to spend a lot more time and unpack your calling, right?
Dustin: Like this is your calling and it's really fun to see the energy and that sort of vibration in your chest come up when you get more clarity about like, how to go live it out. So thank you so much for being transparent and vulnerable and coming here and letting me, coach you sort of live here in front of a recorded studio audience.
Aisha: Oh, thank you for having me. I appreciate it. It was good. It's good for my soul.
Dustin: Good. All right. Thank you.
Aisha: Thanks Justin.