From Paint Brushes to Podcasts: The Evolution of a Side Hustle with Nick Loper

Nick: [00:00:00] was not married, but was living with my partner. You just had our 25th, anniversary of, togetherness, and though we weren't, married at that time, you know, had relatively low overhead. We didn't have any kids. And so what I was looking for was a, track record of revenue from the side business that would at least, cover my half of the monthly expenses, right?
It's like, I don't want to have to, go backwards. I don't have to take on debt. I don't want to dip it to savings and, had a little bit of a savings cushion too, from working and, living below our means. bigger risk was more like the psychological risk of like, can I really cut my own paycheck?
Dustin: Welcome back to the seventh year leap today is an extremely special episode because my guest today is actually the very first host who said yes to one of my pitches allowed me to be on his program and kicked off this entire insane for your journey into podcast guesting and coaching and masterminding
and everything [00:01:00] else.
So, Nick Loper is an amazing guy and it's going to be a great guest. Nick, do you mind introducing yourself to the audience?
Nick: What's going on, Dustin? Thanks so much for having me. I mean, awesome story and really cool to be the catalyst for all of that stuff. So Dustin alluded to for the last almost 11 years, I've been hosting the side hustle show. It is for aspiring and part time entrepreneurs to learn how to make extra money in your spare time, build a business that you care about.
We do that through deconstructing case studies of people who've been there, done that. Like, how did you come up with that idea? How'd you get your first customers? That stuff? Yeah. Was fascinating in 2013 still is today and that's what kind of drives the show forward is just the endless creative ways that people are making it happen.
It's super inspiring
Dustin: you haven't checked out side hustle nation, it doesn't matter if you're really into side hustles, just a lot of really creative. yeah, just really creative, amazing entrepreneur stories. And it's an amazing guest. he's got the voice for podcasting as you can hear. It makes me sound like an amateur with a whiny
voice, I think on here, but, [00:02:00] just to kind of give a little closure to how I introduced things.
So back in 2020, coming out of. The throes of COVID, was a partner in fire Creek snacks, uh, e commerce company. I couldn't travel. I was like, man, what am I going to do? So just had this idea of what if I got on podcasts, because I've seen a lot of other brand founders get interviewed and they're spending their time on it.
It must be worth something. And I had this very loose connection to Nick, I think through Facebook and maybe even my old marriage brand. And so I just wrote him a cold pitch. and may, we'll get into it later, some of the elements that were in there,
Nick: you were early. I mean you were early in the online business space You were definitely a familiar name and face from the early days of side hustle nation for sure.
Dustin: okay, cool. I didn't know that. Yeah. If it's at the time, firecracker snacks was a side hustle. And so I guess got on there and told the story behind the brand, how, we were bringing a local business online and, very relevant topic and COVID. And, it was a super, super fun episode.
I need to go back and listen to it. It's been a long time, but I still have people. Recognize me and say, Oh, I heard you on side hustle nation with Nick. So [00:03:00] that's really, that's really cool.
Nick: People go back and binge the archives. Yeah
Dustin: so obviously you're a big time podcaster. and have a passion for side hustles. I'm sure you've had myriad side hustles throughout your own career, but what's your main focus today as far as what you do as an entrepreneur?
Nick: The main focus is on the media brand the side hustle nation You Brand and the side hustle show podcast and trying to play the SEO game on the Google front, for the website and then trying to create compelling radio, on the podcast side. between those two, that drives the lion's share of the revenue between sponsorship on this row and then ads and affiliate partnerships through the site.
And just trying to become the number one, most trusted brand in the side hustle niche online.
Dustin: That's cool. I've always been curious, behind the scenes. Is Nick doing coaching? Is he doing consulting? But you see yourself as a media company, you're producing high quality content, both on your website and on the show, which is side hustle show the website side hustle nations.
I mixed those up a moment ago. and that's it. when I say that's it, I know there's a ton to that [00:04:00] and an SEO and in organic traffic and all the things, but that is the focus is basically driving traffic to a media brand.
Nick: Yeah, in the early days, it was very much like, okay, I'm going to go out and be the guinea pig, I'm going to, sell stuff on Fiverr and I'm going to, you know, try to sign up and drive for Lyft, or I would rent my car out on these different platforms, or I want to, go flip stuff on eBay. Did a lot of that early on.
It was fun, like going, you know, scanning items at Walmart and seeing if I could sell them on Amazon. But then it became harder to justify spending time on that where it's like, not the world's expert on that. Let me go find somebody who's way better at this than me and have them share how it works and, that was much, much more scalable because it would take like a year to get enough content to like
Dustin: You have to literally start every side hustle that you want to cover. Yeah. That, that could be a challenge.
Nick: Yeah, it was, yeah, I mean, it was, it was really fun and rewarding time to do that. Some of the ones that came out of that were selling, products and services on Fiverr doing the Amazon arbitrage game, [00:05:00] did a lot of like freelance book editing for a few years there and stuff like that.
Um, Put together a handful of digital courses, you know, it's all an experiment taking what I learned from especially the early guests. And, that's the mark of a good episode for me when I hang up the call being like, Dang, I should totally do that. Like if I'm, if I'm nodding along, like we just had a dude, this vending
machine business and like, oh, that would be fantastic, especially for the kids Like they already like all these products anyways, supply and demand one on one here you go, you know it's stuff like that.
It's like always, that keeps it fresh keeps it exciting for me
Dustin: that's really cool. Yeah. So to me, this would be torture if I was in your seat, because, and I'm sure you have elements of, I think every entrepreneur
does, right. The entrepreneurial 80, 80 D it's like, Another idea and another idea. So you're literally like extracting ideas every day from people on the interviews.
It'd be so hard to not just want to run and do every one of them. So it sounds like you originally you did. And now you kind of tamed yourself and you're more selective. and at some point a little later in interview, I'll talk about kids [00:06:00] businesses because we also have that connection. it's still in the entrepreneurial spirit in our families.
so I definitely get to that. Before we go there, and this may be an obvious question, maybe not. but I would love to just hear, you can go back as far, maybe it is your childhood. You can go back as far as it's relevant, but like
where did you get exposed to entrepreneurship or what drew you ultimately to this journey that you're on?
Was it purely the need for a side hustle for some extra cash or is there something preceding that you think?
Nick: I mean I was the kid like trying to sell, Baseball cards at the end of the driveway to my dad equally broke friends. Like I wasn't the greatest, product market fit. Um, I, sold, candy from Costco at, Boy Scout summer camp, I can undercut the general store and you don't have to walk half a mile to get there.
Look, it's right here. what really probably bit me with the entrepreneurial bug for good was painting houses in college. This was through, college works painting, I think a national outfit where they basically assign you a territory, assign you a zip code and, give you a, kind of like a template basically to you, like how to estimate a job, how to bid a job [00:07:00] and then such a loose, like, go see how much work you can book and it was.
a bunch of 19 year olds with paint sprayers, like everything that can go goes wrong, does go wrong, but you like, you have to work through it. You have to learn from it. And so it was really, really rewarding from the standpoint of like getting people to say yes to me, the standpoint of like, at the end of the week, hey, look at the transformation we made on this house.
Look at the before and after. And then at the end of the summer to say, booked 60 grand worth of work. We did this 25, 30 times. It was awesome. That was a really formative experience. It was my first taste of working for profits and not wages. And, it was exciting, to not have a traditional summer job, but to go out and kind of you see the direct impact of your effort to the bottom line.
Dustin: yeah, that's cool. We said that was part of college. So did you follow that exposure, just going straight into your own business? Or did you have a more traditional, like graduated college, had a career and then led into side hustling from there?
Nick: I did that a couple of summers. [00:08:00] I did a online business internship. Later in college, and that was my first exposure to, you know, affiliate marketing and
Dustin: I mean, you know, that was a thing. That's really, that's really cool.
Nick: and so that's sparked the original side hustle. So I did, I did what you're supposed to do. I worked corporate after college, three years.
But on the side from that, like starting with this little, online business internship that I had, I started my original side hustle, which was a comparison shopping site for footwear. it's, last iteration was called shoe sniper. com. It was, you where you can find the best price on your next pair of shoes.
We'll integrate all of these, product level coupon codes and, rank order, where you can find these things, and earn commissions from Zappos, Amazon, shoes. com, a couple dozen different online footwear retailers we had as our, advertising partners or affiliate partners.
That was the original thing. That was the thing that let me quit my corporate job. That was the thing that I kind of naively thought like I'd be just the dude who sells shoes on the internet. Like that could be my thing. It like a lot of businesses had [00:09:00] a finite lifespan and was really grateful to have started a bunch of projects on the side from that, you know, after quitting my job to do it full time.
Most of which, like a lot of projects, like most, you know, most died a quiet death in some corner of the internet. but a couple had some staying power, a couple stuck around, and one of those was the Side Hustle Nation project.
Dustin: That's cool. didn't know that part of your story. So what year was the internship and then what year did you leave corporate?
Nick: So internship would have been probably 04, graduated in 05, and then, took that corporate job. That's what moved me to the East Coast, to Atlanta for a little bit, to DC for a little bit before, circling back West. That was, three years,
nights and weekends before turning in the keys to the company car, calling it quits in, uh, in a way
Dustin: Oh, wait. Wow. Okay. So you're quite old school. I'm like fairly old school. And I started engaged marriage, which was my first online business in 2009, kind of in the heyday of blogging. but obviously the affiliate marketing game was, preceding that by several years. [00:10:00] And you feel like you're kind of in the forefront of that and that getting in that internship?
And that's, I'm sure that was all new to you, but. Was it also kind of new to humanity?
Nick: it was really cool exposure to have, and because it was, 2004, like are people really buying shoes on the internet? And this company had started, you know, as a single location, brick and mortar shoe store. And I think 1996, they had the idea. Well, what, what would happen if we put some of our inventory up online?
Like, would anybody. Order it, would anybody buy it? And, you course, by the time I came on eight years later, that was way bigger than the still single location brick and mortar, shoe store. And so it was, it was definitely cool to be on the ground floor or what felt like. In the early days of, you know, of the internet.
Dustin: That's really cool. So again, what may seem like, so thought it was an obvious question. I didn't know most of that. And it's really cool to hear like the early days, the painting, an internship in affiliate marketing, basically in 2004, like who coming out of engineering school, I graduated in [00:11:00] 2001 and went back for my master's, but I had no conception of entrepreneurship on my business. it's so foreign to me. so it was really cool that you did have that earlier exposure and you're able to get a jumpstart. So again, maybe an obvious question, but there's gotta be a precipitating event. So 2008, you went to college, you invested all that time, money, energy to get a degree, and you've got a three year career.
You said you had a company car, you were like moving and shaking to different locations. Why in the world did you quit that in 2008
Nick: probably an important disclosure. so I got transferred across the country, right? Yeah. We're driving across the San Mateo bridge, going on some dealer visit with my boss I'm driving and he's in the passenger seat and he looks and he's like, you know what, Nick, the scouting report on you is that you'll never be
an all star. know. I kind of like look over, keep driving across the bridge, like a five mile bridge.
Dustin: drive off the bridge? Yes.
Nick: like, are you, telling me this to motivate me? Like, what kind of reaction are you trying to try to get? do [00:12:00] you believe that? Do you think, it was a weird thing to say.
It was something that stuck with me. the gut reaction is like, of course I want to be an all star. Like if you're playing the game, don't you want to be the best? But yeah, the realization kind of came. It's like, well, I don't know if I want to be an all star at your game.
Like I kind of want to play my own game it wasn't great for me long term and was happy to be building my own stuff on the side.
Dustin: nowadays, most people have a 2020 story like mine that I opened with, right. And, before that, a lot of people have 2008 stories cause there's another financial crisis and all this stuff. So was this something you actively chose or is this sort of like, well, I lost my job, I've been doing some stuff on the side, I'm just going to go focus on that.
And then like, I guess a little bit of the dynamic or psychology there. and then maybe a snapshot at that time. Cause I really like to understand why people get into the things they get into. So I was like, is this a proactive choice or is it something you had to react to? And then kind of a snapshot of your life at that time.
Like, were you married yet? Kids? you're just a single guy. it's always fun to kind of understand the context when these major career transitions happen.
Nick: Yeah. It was not married, but [00:13:00] was living with my partner. You just had our 25th, anniversary of, togetherness, and though we weren't, married at that time, you know, had relatively low overhead. We didn't have any kids. And so what I was looking for was a, track record of revenue from the side business that would at least, cover my half of the monthly expenses, right?
It's like, I don't want to have to, go backwards. I don't have to take on debt. I don't want to dip it to savings and, had a little bit of a savings cushion too, from working and, living below our means. bigger risk was more like the psychological risk of like, can I really cut my own paycheck?
Like, like you said, you went to school, you did, you know, did all the things you're supposed to do going to go out on your own. And can you really do that? what sucked was, gave my two weeks notice and then like my first day of self employment, that's the day that Google decides, your advertising account no longer meets our quality
Dustin: Oh, my God.
Nick: so like, I thought it was reasonably diversified, you know, 2025 different advertising partners, like, peel back one layer. And it's like, well, 80 percent of the traffic is coming from these Google ads. turned into a very, very [00:14:00] stressful summer because it was, middle of the financial crisis.
For one, and then like the revenue that you were counting on dried up. And not only that, but you have to make additional capital investments into the website to, you know, hopefully get back into Google's good graces, which eventually they came back three months later and they're like, Hey, it looks like we made an error.
You're good to go. It's like, Oh my God. You know, that was an expensive and stressful error, but it was, eyeopening. You're like, okay, look, You're going to want to diversify, you're going to want to have a little more control to the extent that you can, and, maybe this thing isn't the thing forever.
Dustin: So when did you start the side hustle show or side hustle nation, whichever came first
Nick: Yeah, spring of 2013.
Dustin: 2013?
Okay. So you
have five years of doing a bunch of different side hustles to kind of make ends meet and realize that you wanted to start documenting that. To demonstrate to others what's possible. And then that evolved into interviewing people who are
already doing it successfully. I mean, that sounds like a pretty long time, honestly, to be like a professional side hustler,
Nick: What was, it [00:15:00] was like, the focus was the shoe business during that time. Yeah. And so that was the main source of income. Had some great years, had some not so great years, but that was the main focus. The other
business I started at that time was a virtual assistant directory and review platform. It was like, Yelp for outsourcing companies.
So that was 2011. And that was my first, exposure to WordPress and YouTube and Twitter. And, really like. Using WordPress as a content management system, rather than just like a personal blogging platform, and that was a fantastic project. It was really cool to have a front row seat, for this growing outsourcing industry, and, you really rewarding little something that was always a part time project.
Dustin: Interesting. So, man, I have so many pointed questions because you have so much exposure to so many different business models and individual entrepreneurs, The softball question would be like for you and what you've done yourself, what's been your favorite side hustle and what's been like the most disastrous that you would never recommend anyone [00:16:00] try.
Nick: I mean, favorite has to be the podcast just because of the network that it's built because of the conversations that you otherwise would have no excuse happening and just sometimes people who charge a thousand bucks an hour for their consulting, you're like, well, I got this podcast. They're like, sign me up. Let's do this. So there's, definitely that and then the realization, a year, two years, like, okay, you see the little blips on the download chart, but it's like, those are actual people and you imagine yourself standing in front of a room of 500 people, 1000 people at this point.
25, 30, 35, 000 people and it's like, that's an arena full of people can you imagine sitting center court at some basketball stadium know, just having a one on one conversation is really, it's really weird because just one on one or even sometimes solo when you're doing the thing, but the reach that it can have and the impact that can have is huge.
And so I started doing listener meetups along the way, really trying to do whenever I have. Travel or whenever have some extra time in any [00:17:00] city and have met people from all over the world. I found, I guess so much energy from that and just to hear what people are working on. has to be the podcast.
Other ones that have been fun, just in the last year is the Amazon influencer program. I don't know if you've been involved with this at all.
Dustin: I'm not, not completely out of the loop on, some of these little niche things. So I don't even, I don't even have any awareness of what that is.
Nick: 11 years, Amazon has been at the center of probably more side hustles than anything else between Amazon associates and. FBA fulfillment by Amazon and self publishing and, print on demand, like they've got their paws in, a ton of different areas. But the Amazon influencer program, this is the easiest money that I've ever made online.
I still was like, how does this really work? so you have to have some level of social following. They're not going to say, you know, how many followers that you need to have, but you do have to apply for it. And they'd want you to, link up your, you know, Instagram, whatever, like, okay, some level of social following, but you don't have to market to your followers.
So how it works is you, create these little video product reviews, [00:18:00] and I just started with the stuff around my desk, like the microphone stand or the, the webcam or the ring light and just stuff that was sitting around here anyway, the little. carpet mat. And within days, like had my first, you know, nine or 10 bucks worth of commission.
So how it works is they put these videos on the product pages as a way to Crowdsource content, improve conversion, right? Like Amazon is not, necessarily like the benevolent being here just giving people money. Like want to make more sales, but in exchange. So somebody watches your video eventually buys the thing they say, Hey, hey, thanks for helping us close that sale.
Then they'll sprinkle you a couple percentage points of the sale, in exchange for doing that.
Dustin: So they're tracking which videos were watched before the purchase. And then they're rewarding those specific videos. It's not just like you're one of 20 and all 20 get a nickel every time a product sells.
Nick: right, right, right. think it's if you're the one who seals the deal, maybe I guess you get the thing. so there's a whole cottage industry that has popped up around this in the last 12, 18 months, but we just try and make a point if we get something new from Amazon, especially if [00:19:00] it's a higher dollar thing, got to record that video, got to throw it up there because some of the stuff that I recorded eight, nine months ago, like it's still making sales every month.
That's just very, very hands off once, it happens. every now and again, you stumble on one of these, really low. Effort type of side hustles that obviously not gonna last forever, but kind of fun to play around with while it's there,
Dustin: a couple of things you said there that I want to just highlight, it's a couple of very healthy mindsets. One being 25, 000 downloads is like literally standing in front of a sold out. that's a bigger than probably the most sold out basketball arenas. Right. And imagine people sitting there captively listening to two people have a conversation at center court.
that's just a whole different perspective. and I use those kinds of examples for podcast guesting too. Like I say like a thousand, but like, it's not just a thousand. Randos either. It's a thousand people who called the title of the podcast. I saw who's being interviewed. They downloaded it and they're listening to it.
Usually in my semi hypnotic state because they're running [00:20:00] or, doing some other activity that you're literally in their earbuds right next to their brain. Like it's just very powerful, intimate. Environment and it scales, right? And it's like, could be thousands and thousands of people. So I think that's really
important.
And I think the other thing that you said that is a gift of your, all this experience you've had in this world is you're like, when it's too good to be true, it's going to end, but you might as well leverage it while it's available. Right? Like this has to end because it's, seems too easy and everyone's going to flock to it.
that happens every time, whether it's a SEO update or a new Amazon program or whatever. If you're in this world of. Tactics, I guess you say like these, like very specific activities, bring them out and get all the worth you can, but don't
hang your whole business on it. Because if you build your business on those sort of things, they are fleeting.
Nick: right? Yeah,
Dustin: yeah. So how about the worst? Like, is there something you did that was just, you lost a ton of money or just like a totally miserable experience and it wasn't what you signed up for? I'm
Nick: worst. Well, in the shoe business, a lot of my advertisers also [00:21:00] sold, like handbags and luggage. And so my whole shtick with that business was like, I will appear to be more relevant than the broad comparison shopping sites of the day, the shopping dot coms, the, next tags, the price grabbers of the world by having shoes in the domain, like I'm going to get more clicks because people are going to have more perceived relevance.
Right. Okay. so I didn't want to add the handbags and luggage to that site. That's going to dilute it. Like people aren't going to click on that cause it's not relevant. So spun off this other site, I think it was called like carry my stuff or something like just, but we had the basic architecture and template, like pre WordPress, pre all this stuff.
And so we're able to pour a lot of that over, but still had several thousand dollars in development cost. we found out, you know, the data churning of this, you know, it's like the breadth of advertisers that sold the. You know, maybe, 1 percent of their catalog would have, would have been relevant to the site.
So we're churning through all of this data, deleting it, you to get the, 1 percent of the juice and the commission rates were lower across the board. Like I could have [00:22:00] done a little more research and homework upfront before making the investment to build this little spinoff. Yeah. Cause it really didn't end up.
Working out and it was, much harder to build the comparison algorithms around, you well, it's a five piece set or it's a three piece set. And I'm like, I don't know, that one didn't work. That was kind of an expensive loss. But, I think of other ones that sucked. Um,
Dustin: like, the other question I want to ask you, so if you think of one, it sucks. That's great. But this is going to be like choosing your favorite child out of hundreds and hundreds of interviews. But is there 2 side hustles that you've interviewed people about that really stood out to you?
Like, that was really creative or like extremely smart or lucrative that you're just like, man, that's 1 of my favorites. Not necessarily the interviews the best, but like the idea and the execution was really smart. Yeah.
Nick: of most profitable ones was shit. This guy, Ryan Golgoski runs a business called 180 sites. com design business targeting almost exclusively pressure washing companies. [00:23:00] And I was like, wow, you have the skill, you could do it for anybody, but like, okay, I'm going to, I'm going to carve out a niche here.
And what he did that was interesting instead of charging, four or five grand upfront for web design, he's like, look, I'm going to parse it out and say, it's just 200 bucks a month. I think it started at 180 bucks a month. I think that's where he got the name. And on a two year contract or something, it's like he's going to get to that full price.
Just we're going to piecemeal and a lot of these, pressure washing companies are low cost or, you they're in the startup phase. They don't have that kind of money to pay for web design upfront, but they can see the value in it of getting listed in Google places and, Google my business.
Given the nature of the business, if you get one job, if you get half a job, like it pays for itself. And so it's like, okay, we recorded, he just had his first 100, 000 a month. And I was like, whoa, you know, 100 grand doing websites for pressure washing companies. the production costs on this, like a kind of an outsourced team or a really lean development team, after a month or two, he's broken even on his cost.
The rest is gravy, you know, minimal support requests. Sometimes people will ask me to [00:24:00] update this or whatever, That was just like, really, really fascinating. Like anybody could do this, you know, pick a niche, go to the races. And by virtue of having done probably now thousands of these sites, it's like, he's got a handful of templates.
So you don't have to reinvent the wheel every time out. It's
Dustin: Cause they're all in different geographies anyway. So,
Nick: yeah, take your, take your pick. the more you do. The more efficient you get, like there was some economies of scale in there too. It was like, dang, that's super
smart.
Dustin: it's funny that you say that, when people ask me these kinds of questions, usually it's like, of your clients. And so I had a guy named John Morrison. He's a story brand guide and that's how I met him. I'm also one. And so he's an alumni of my accelerator program.
But I've actually attended a talk while he was in my program that he gave at the story brand summit. And so it was really funny that you say that. So he was like taking some of the story brand framework, some messaging and he templatized the chiropractic website. And then they actually used enough technology that it basically auto created each new site.
As I you filled out some templates as the customer and then it like created the site and then they would go in and do some final touches. [00:25:00] The same thing. It was like 89 bucks a month. the chiropractors didn't care that they were
templated, right? And I think they had regional exclusivity or something like that, built in.
the end of his story was we built up all this recurring revenue. and he sold it for, he said, he didn't say the specifics, but a life changing exit to the point that he was in a year sabbatical when I met him. So, Yeah, that's the power of niching. That's the power of recurring revenue.
And when I heard that, I was like, that's really smart. And then I, of course, then you become aware of it. So I met another guy who did the exact same thing in the martial arts studio world, and he just created martial arts. Then he created a go high level CRM for martial arts studios and started white labeling that.
And so he just went super deep into the martial arts niche, all replicatable technology things, you and I'm sure with AI, a lot of that's going to be hammered at some point. but really cool. Yeah. So I appreciate you sharing that because it brought up some other fun examples.
Nick: I'm breaking up. I'm just bringing up the like list of, of
Dustin: you're feeling challenged now, like what is the best or what is the worst?
Nick: yeah,
we [00:26:00] had, A really cool episode with this young woman, Jackie Mitchell out of Columbus, Ohio, and she set herself on tick tock this personal challenge to make 100 a day on the side for 100 days and started out where she was doing like, remote data annotation. She was doing like game offers through certain apps, some surveys, and then Hey, this is really compelling story.
Like if you could do it, I can do it. Right. So people start following along. So that opened up, brand deals and affiliate partnerships. And she was super inspiring. That one stood out and we had a high school teacher who was renting out portable hot tubs, which. I was like, well, he sent me a note on Facebook.
Talk about like a great outbound pitch. Hey, you've, talked about all these different niches. my niche is running out portable hot tubs. Like, yeah, that's something we definitely haven't covered. And he had 2025 of these things. It's like, Steve, where do you keep them all? He's like, at most we have a couple in the side yard, but they're, they're rented out, you know, because it was this math,
[00:27:00] this ROI math on like the cost of acquisition, like, okay, find one gently used.
It's a couple grand. You rent it out for 250 bucks a week, 500 bucks a month. You kind of like. I was like, Oh, that pencils out, you know, way better than, traditional rental property. And yeah, yeah. You got to do some delivery, labor, logistics, storage and stuff. But it was, an asset class.
I hadn't never considered. And, uh, it was really cool
Dustin: related to this, did want to close the loop on something you mentioned earlier. You mentioned vending machines. It's like some of your kids were already into. I'm curious do your kids have side hustles or businesses or have they over the years? Anything you want to you want to share on that front?
Nick: not a ton yet. So we did, kind of neighborhood,
Dustin: kids are, so maybe I'm asking a really dumb question.
Nick: they're, they're eight and six and definitely. Definitely money motivated, especially the older one. So we had our garage sale community garage sale last year, they made 50 bucks, 60 bucks, and they, they stuck with it. They talked to strangers.
Like I thought that was a good experience. [00:28:00] We just got a 3d printer. And so this is my wife was the driving force behind that because she was a mechanical engineer. And so, you know, they're both building little parts and so far just printing out, designs that already exist, but like, okay, you know, could you design a product using this thing?
Could you prototype it? so maybe in the future, and then they've gotten into drawing and art. And so we're playing around with some print on demand stuff. so far they've only bought t shirts for themselves, but hey, you can put this on a design for other people to go out buy too. So I'm playing around with some of these low barrier to entry type of gigs to see what happens
Dustin: love that. came up because in the pre talk, Nick's like, yeah, I still share your video, that I created from one of my kids watching two of my kids. it's a trashcan cleaning business. It's funny. It's actually become like a legacy business. This actually ties directly back to you, Nick.
So, the pits that I sent Nick and we're going to close out the episode with his best practices on how to be an exceptional guest. So it's kind of relevant. So when I first pitched Nick, I like way overkilled it. I [00:29:00] did actually listen to the show. I really liked the show and my kids were in COVID stir crazy.
And like, how can we make money? We want to buy stuff and have Amazon bring it to us since you won't let us go anywhere. And so they were researching ideas. I said, you should look through the side hustle, nation website. And they found this dog pooper, scooper business. And they're like, that's something we could do.
We didn't have a dog, right? We do now we didn't at the time. And I guess that could work, you know? so I took a picture of them looking at Nick's site and use the subject line dog poop, uh, which I don't recommend as a
Nick: we're still at the same thread four years later. Yeah,
Dustin: And I said, I purposely, every time I communicate with Nick, I reply all back to that thread because I just think it's hilarious and I still use it as a teaching example of kind of like.
This can work if you really want to be cheeky, but you got to understand the recipient's personality sort of thing. but out of that, they decided not to do the dog poop in that summer of 2020, my older son his youngest sister. So the middle one have one in no part of this, but they started cleaning trash cans.
so just basically we're on the neighborhood in the summer and they'll do a few rounds until they get everyone who has an interest. They [00:30:00] make a lot of money and it's like. A very high effective hourly rate. And so he's now in basic training at the army. And so my daughter, like yesterday is like, Hey, when are we going to start marketing, I need some money.
And so she's taken on the family business, the teenage business. so she's almost 14 for safety, I do kind of hover and I help her make sure the hoses in the backyards aren't full of dogs and creeps, but, otherwise she does all the work,
Nick: isn't that great? And this is like, what are these surprising niches? Cause you're like, it's a garbage can. It doesn't have to be clean, but, but there's actually like trucks that go over and
like, they lift up the thing. They like you know, blast it out with like the high pressure stuff.
Dustin: there's a whole industry, but basically we just made a flyer. We put it in our family, our neighborhood Facebook group. We're in a, I don't know, 120 home subdivision and it's a significant amount of money. and she works like a couple of days in the summer and she makes more than people do babysitting, you know, like all summer.
Nick: How cool. That's awesome.
Dustin: Yeah. So that video, if anyone wants it, hit me up. and then my middle daughter who doesn't like dirty things, she's very talent, [00:31:00] naturally talented at like calligraphy and art. And so, it's more seasonal, but in the Christmas time, she calls it, hello, hand lettering. So if you want really cool gift tags for your family
gifts, she does really cool.
And they're like, yeah. custom envelope writing and invitations. And so she does that. and then my son, right before he left for the army, he started a pressure washing business going back. He didn't need a website cause he just did it in our region. he did a few gigs.
I think he realized it was harder than he thought it was, but he went out and bought a pressure washer, him and his buddy were like, we're in new window cleaning and they got it, they made some money, And the reason I bring that up is one of the things that drives me. Is exposure to entrepreneurship.
I think it's one of the reasons I just love spending time with Nick and listening to a show because you get so many different versions of entrepreneurial success. And a lot of it's just experimentation. And it's, it's just a lot of fun. And so yeah, I did the college engineering. I probably did engineering for about seven years too long, and had side hustles.
And so that was a part of my journey, of course, but I didn't have any appreciation for entrepreneurship. I didn't know what it was. And so I really [00:32:00] I'm glad that my kids have picked up on the opportunity that entrepreneurship provides, and they're actually doing stuff with it. they've done numerous other things, but, yeah.
So anyway, appreciate you giving the space for this conversation. And, I was thinking your kids were a little older, so I'm sure in a couple of years, you're going to have some really cool, business stories that they've pulled off just because they're going to absorb it from you and your energy and all the, all the people that you're interviewing.
So,
Nick: Yeah. If nothing else, like trying to instill that getting a job isn't the only path, just try to plant that seed, right? Because, the other day, my oldest asked me, like, well, who's the richest person that, you know, and I was like, well, I'm really fortunate in my work to have connected with a lot of people.
Pretty wealthy people. But the one thing they have in common is that they're all entrepreneurs. You they're all business owners. It's like, okay, it'll file. Hopefully he files that one away.
Dustin: Yeah, and I agree. And, it's another passion. My daughter just got accepted as a, I think it's a regional program. It's called CEO. it's their senior year of high school. It's stands for creating entrepreneurial opportunity.
And so in their local, it's very selective. You have to write [00:33:00] an essay and stuff.
She got picked up in it, which is funny. This is the middle daughter is probably like the least entrepreneurial on the surface. I'm sure her younger sister's going to try to, you know, following her footsteps, but they spend an entire year. they
go an hour before school, five days a week, they dress in professional, outfits and they tour local businesses.
They have, entrepreneurs come in and speak to them and tell them their stories. They actually, in the first half. create, they conceptualize a product and create it. And then the second half, they actually create a business from that. they pitch investors and then there's like, you know, awards at the end for the best, businesses and best products.
And so she will start that this fall. And I'm just like, I'm way more excited. I think that she is. And I'm like, I'm going to come speak to you guys. Like, this is so cool. I can imagine if I would've had this in high school. that's the type of thing I see myself philanthropically, sort of that's my world.
I would, love to foster more entrepreneurship. And I think it's the key to so many of our world's problems. So anyway, thank you Nick, for the role that you played with me in that and with all these other people that you highlight on your platform. so before we get to Nick's best lessons on being a, great guest, I like to [00:34:00] future pace a little bit.
So you gave us a very good snapshot of your journey and. Where you are today as a media, I'll call it a media empire. where do you see this going? Is there a next version that you have in mind and like three years, five years, are there different things you want to do with it or is it.
keep doing what we're doing and go along for the ride.
Nick: Hey, I haven't gotten that far down the road right now it's still very much reliant on me as the bottleneck in content production. So, you working In places to remove myself where it makes sense and easier said than done. Cause my baby in a lot of ways, like I have a hard time letting it go despite, you know, running the site all about outsourcing.
It's like still, it's still challenging. To do, but you're trying to try to think like a media business rather than a personal brand, down the horizon, like trying to get to where there would be the option to exit to sell this thing. And then comes the even harder questions of, well, well, then what do you do?
You know, what do you do next? Like, so right now it's still super fun to continue. Making the show and continuing [00:35:00] to be a part of the community, but don't know, do you do it for another 600 episodes? Do you do it for another 10 years? Like, as long as it's fun and rewarding, probably, but at the same time, it would be nice to have the option if somebody wanted to write me a big check.
Dustin: Yeah, that's literally a conversation I had twice today about my own journey and just kind of where we've hit. And was very much in that spirit. It's like, think I want to keep doing this for 25 years, you know, like maybe 50. I, I love what I do. however, it's very dependent on me and it's all the optionality.
Like, I don't think I would even sell it, but I'd like it to be, set up the way a saleable business is because of the other things that that means and implies. So, yeah, I think we're kind of similar spots in our entrepreneurial journey. So it'd be fun to reconnect, you know, a few years down the road, in a more official way to, uh, Okay.
what did it mean to actually remove yourself and what I've discovered for myself, like I've been through some pretty rapid progress. So even 18 months, my whole coaching existence didn't exist 18 months ago, you so now, and I look like, well, how the heck am I going to predict three years?
Like [00:36:00] that's twice as long as this has existed. So it's really unpredictable, but I think it is healthy. To go through that thought exercise and think about what would I need to put in place if I was ever going to have an exitable business? So cool.
Nick: And make it a number that would be compelling enough to do it? Cause you're like, well, making good cashflow on a monthly basis today, like you race all of that, for this lump sum, it's like, well, you gotta, gotta double the business. So then you gotta double it again, just to get.
To where that valuation may even come close, you know, like, you know, so there's there's some work in the in between time to see if you can get there and hey, it should be a fun challenge.
Dustin: Yeah, absolutely. Well, cool. thanks for giving us a little peek behind the curtain and in your brain of your vision and where you want to go. So, yeah, at this point, love to just kind of turn the mic over to you for, 10 minutes and let you riff on interviewed so many people.
You say So he said,
Nick: Yeah, we're over 600 episodes. Not all of those are interview shows, but most of them are.
Dustin: and you'll let me on. So that's really cool. Uh, but, but you [00:37:00] have 600 talented people plus Dustin, who have been interviewed on your show. And I'm sure you've seen every form of pitch. You've had all kinds of, can imagine all the different, interview styles and flubs everything. So when I say to Nick Loper, Hey, As a very long time successful podcaster, what should my audience be thinking about if they want to be like 1 percent guests?
Like what makes an awesome guest?
Nick: Yeah, this is a really cool topic because I do get, many, many more pitches than there are spots available. And, PR companies, you know, oh, so and so. Has a new coming out about their eight figure exit. You're like, cool. Good for them. not super relevant to side hustle audience. Um, so, having some
familiarity with the show, with the audience and with the type of content it's about, like, you know, that would probably be table stakes.
So, so just, you know, not blanket pitching everybody, but having some level of personalization. The best pitches I get and now it makes total sense. The best pitches I get are from engineers [00:38:00] and I know I don't know what it is like. I'm not an engineer, but like those appeal to me. It's, usually very much to the point.
It's, you bullet points. It's highlights. It's they kind of understand like almost technical writing like the hook. here's a pitch that I got This morning, to which my response was 100%. Yes. Subject line. I made 70, 000 profit in five months at 19. okay, I'm listening.
Right.
And so he goes on to say, in middle school, I started a lawn mowing business that paid for my college education. I'm 22 today. I want to share my story. Then he goes into bullet points about, you know, when I was this year's old, we, did 300 grand in revenue in six months, like seasonal business, you lawn mowing.
And 70, 000 in profit ended up selling the business for six figure sum. He gives this range because he's like, I signed an NDA. I can't sell it and say the exact amount, but 21 had this. huge sum of money, 21 year old to have a six figure exit, we're not talking about [00:39:00] software, we're not talking about, you know, venture capital, we're talking about lawn mowing.
I was like, yes, 100 percent we have to do this episode. so those are the type of pitches that kind of start with the hook, because that's kind of where I've struggled as a host is to condense 10 years of business history into, 60 minute episode. And that's where we've had a hard time, like going too broad.
And so sometimes we're able to, dial that back. And sometimes we have to just, hey, pause This isn't working. Let's go back to the drawing board. It's my bad. Like, I, I'm trying to cover, too much. if we just focused on this one tactic? and then, we could do.
a half hour, 45 minutes, just on this one thing. Like if this was the secret marketing sauce that helped you grow your thing, that's totally fine. And, you know, sometimes we've been able to redirect and salvage episodes just based on that. So those are a couple of things that come to mind and Happy to share more.
Dustin: that's awesome. I, I, gotta be honest, I'm feeling a bit of an ego pump when you're like, engineers write the best pitches. it's funny because, you know, obviously I have an engineering [00:40:00] career. It was my background technical writing. It was really like persuasive technical writing because I was writing like traffic study reports that like the mayor had to believe, it was technical but it started to be very relatable.
I never really made that connection, Nick, until you were talking that's probably why I'm naturally I'm pretty good at doing that. Writing these pitches and I've created a framework around it. And that's, you know, it's part of what we teach in our accelerator program. I've had people make those kinds of comments.
So like, this sounds like a copywriter married an engineer. I'm like, that is pretty much it. Cause I've learned copywriting and I have this engineering background would say it's an art and science because it's this like balance between being. Persuasive, but also getting to the point and really leading with the value that I can provide your audience, right?
Because that's ultimately what the host cares about. So love that. Love the example pitch. It's awesome that that was like this morning.
Nick: Yeah, just came through. So a couple other ones like, um, I don't know if you've, connected with Jock Hopkins runs, uh, an online course business teaching people how to play piano. It's called piano in 21 days, former electrical engineer, I want to say, but, you know, similar, like, [00:41:00] Hey, here's how I make, I think when we first recorded like 10 grand a month, teaching people how to play.
Play piano without doing any one on one lessons or something. Oh, okay. how does that work? Another one we did was, uh, Matt Volknock has. A really, really cool business and his original side hustle was, mechanical engineer in Chicago. His original business was repairing motorcycles in his garage.
add on craigslist hours for dollars side hustle. Don't pay dealer rates, take it to me. I know what I'm doing. But what Matt did, you know, he sets up the camera, nobody's paying him to do this. That's up the camera in the corner of the garage and starts. Filming himself doing the repairs, talking through this stuff, creating content for YouTube.
he creates these like full engine rebuild videos. He starts selling as a digital product I, looked up his original pitch just now. I work full time as a mechanical engineer. I've got three kids, a house, wife, and kids. Barely any spare time.
Here's my side hustle. And you at that time, it's probably about 50 50, you know, between the service side of the business, the hours for dollar side, and then the digital product side.
And we've recorded [00:42:00] three times with Matt over the years, because each time, pie gets bigger, the revenue grows, and the percentage that he's doing like service business trading time for money shrinks and shrinks, and he ended up creating his own physical product on the back of his, I think, 100, 000 YouTube subscribers now, it's just really, really cool to see.
The evolution of his business.
Dustin: it's really funny. So I'm not going to blow smoke and say, I've listened to 600 plus episodes of your show, and it's honestly been a little while since I listened. however, those two individual episodes are one. I could have told you, you did. Like, I literally remember both of those vividly. I think the piano one was probably like, Okay.
One of the more ones that got me really motivated, back in the day when I probably heard the very first version of that, and I remember the motorcycle repair guy and I was there, I remember thinking like, that's so smart and, it flashed me back to one of my side hustles. started training for a marathon and I didn't really know what I was doing.
And I got shin splints like really bad. And so I started like looking over the internet, trying to figure out how to get rid of shin splints. And I kind of took a little bit from this guy and a little bit from this gal and this ice pack thing and [00:43:00] this golf ball trick with your foot. And like, it works.
so I literally put I think I had a camcorder at the time. I had like some kind of video camera and I just film myself for five minutes doing my routine. I put it on YouTube. it went viral. I had like hundreds of thousands of views and then. and I don't have any like business sense for like all my engaged marriage, YouTube channel, I think, uh, it was on fit marriage as a whole another, it's a whole nother topic.
everyone started contacting me. And so I ended up buying all this stuff wholesale. Like I'd buy a bulk golf balls, bulk ice packs, tubes. And my kids would cut up these like resistance tubes. And my kids would pack the boxes. I started selling shin splints, treatment kits.
Nick: A shin split kit. Okay,
wow.
Dustin: for a long time. And I finally, I started feeling a little scared about compliance because I called it shin splints cure. And I'm like, I'm going to get like sued by the FDA at some point. And it, and it, you know, it kind of died over time and there's a lot of rip off videos for a while it was really, really Completely organic,
Nick: in that crazy one piece of content, right? You
never,
Dustin: one video.
Nick: I love it.
Dustin: So anyway, we can exchange stories like that forever. any final thing on the guesting side, maybe [00:44:00] on the, I think in an area where many guests missed the boat is like. Follow up and like maintaining a relationship with the host.
Is there something there that you would recommend if you're going to get an opportunity, how to maximize it,
Nick: Yeah, first of all, like, show up when you're scheduled to show up. Have a decent mic set up. You won't believe the people who, you know, do
Dustin: call from their phone in the car?
Nick: Nobody's really that bad, but it's like you're calling from a your built in laptop mic. It sounds like a tin can I try to be proactive like I will send you a mic It's like I want to make sure you sound good This is going out to thousands of people, right?
If you don't have something happy to send one your way, amazon private will be there in two days It's like no. No, my setup should be good. And then you get on you're like, it's not good. I uh, Alfred so, you know play the part, take it seriously. I do like the follow up because we've gone back to the well, with Matt and with Jacques, you know, two or three times at this point, like, where are they now, right?
If there's a compelling update, oh, we had this pivot, or we changed how we sold this [00:45:00] thing, or we stopped doing, you phone calls and instead we do this type of setup. or I started getting, brand deals from different insurance companies in Matt's case. Like, they started reaching out to me to make videos.
and it's like, if there's, An addition to the story that would be compelling then. gives you an excuse to follow up, even if it doesn't mean you're getting back on air, but it's just, like you said, building that relationship with the host, be part of the community. In some cases, we have guests who will join the Side Hustle Nation Facebook group because sometimes there's questions that come up.
Oh, you know, you mentioned you were building. websites for these different local service providers. How did you get back? How did you get those into Google again? And, if the guest is in there, like, that's really, really cool engagement, for the rest of the community to see. I'm trying to build evergreen content that people can listen to years later.
And hopefully it's something that we can reference, down the road or in other pieces of the business and refer people back to that. So people still listen to it, you know, even though it's not at the top of the feed.
Dustin: That's awesome. Yeah. And always recommend too, like with our. [00:46:00] clients, the minimum thing you should do when the thing gets published and they say, Hey, your interview is published, A five star iTunes review, written review and send it to the host and thank them. to me, that's table stakes.
Cause that's like a one to 5 percent thing. Like no one really does that. Are they're not doing it consistently. So if you do that and you just share the episode on your social media, like again, very minimal amount of effort. You're still like. One of the better guests, and there's so many benefits of being considered a good guest, either even subconsciously in the host mind.
I mean, by definition, you're a center of influence. you know, a lot of podcasters, you know, a lot of other opportunities. so, yeah, going through all the work of getting on the show, recording it. Being prepared, doing a good job not doing something as simple as leaving a rating and sharing on social media and also just saying thank you to the host afterwards.
Like, thank you. This is really, a huge opportunity for me. I'm really grateful for it and asking if there's a way that there a type of guest you're looking for? I
would love to serve you or help you in any way I can. Like, yeah, anyway, it's a bit of a rant. I'm always
Nick: No, they're like, yeah, who else? [00:47:00] Yeah. Who else would make a good fit or who else do you know? Like that type of thing. An email came in just today too from the pooping scooping, business in Michigan. She
sent me?
a note. Yeah. And it wasn't completely out of the blue.
Dustin: Cause that was, that's the episode I'm talking about that. My kids four years ago are on the computer behind me. That's hilarious that she emailed you today. That's,
Nick: Because we've been on, we've been on messenger and like, you know, about, coming back doing a, where are they now type of recap. that email came through today because we do, thanksgiving in michigan, like annual friends giving thing. I saw one of her signs, you know, bright pink roadside sign.
And so I'm texting her like, dude, I still, I totally. And my wife's like, what are you talking about? Like, did you see the sign? Like, no, no, no. She was on the podcast. Like, yeah. I don't know, it was a cool, like, small world, like, to see, to see her marketing in the wild.
Dustin: I love that. anyone's listening to one of these episodes, no, I'm all about relationships. So I'm like, I love podcasts, guesting and hosting now because it's like. ability to build relationships, quality relationships at scale. there's so many like things mouse around my head.
The fact that she, who is the [00:48:00] person Who's episode inspired my kids to start their own business and made me pitch Nick to be on his show, which started this whole thing I'm doing now is very meta. other thing I wanted to point out to people is you know, I had been a while since I listened to, the side hustle show.
And so I, I was like, curious, I downloaded. It and listen to this interview and I'm drawing a blank on her name at the moment, which is unfortunate, but it was a really cool interview. it prompted me to reach out to Nick and say, Hey, I really like this interview. And there's a specific takeaway I referenced there.
and he responded back positively. Right. And he gave me her contact information. Now what's cool is like, she's going to be a guest on this show a few months down the road when she's launching a book. And Nick is here today only because I thought, you know what, it's been a while since I reached out to Nick.
I'd love to have him on my show. this is a pretty new show, right? Nick's a huge guest for me to get. And it only happened because I did a very simple followup in the moment. And I think that's the lesson I want to impart is you feel in the moment, like this is a really good interview. send a simple LinkedIn or email message, DM, whatever platform you're on to one or [00:49:00] both of these individuals and just thank them for the value of the interview.
And you never know what relational capital that builds and what that results in. a lot of meta, like relationship building things happening live here for the audience. Nick. So,
Nick: Yeah, no, there's something to that, because for however many thousands of people tuned in, like, the feedback you get is very minimal. so the people who do take the time to send you a note, hey, Love the episode. can be as simple as that, right? Like, but you start to recognize that name.
like old school blog commenting, you start to see this name in your blog comment role or feed, you know, or your social media handle, they're retweeting your stuff. Like you kind of start to take notice of that. You have a natural affinity. Towards those people, don't have to be any ask, associated with it.
It's just being an engaged member of the audience.
Dustin: exactly. It, a lot of times like people on someone's email newsletter and they would love to have a relationship with this person. I'm like, whoa. Hit reply, like almost all cases, that's ultimately going to get to them, even if it doesn't go directly to them and just thank them for an insight that there's no ask.
It's a thank you. And so it's an act of service and giving 1st [00:50:00] and they may ask you, what do you do? And then I think key takeaway that's like, in the moment, like, don't think, Oh, sometime I need to email Nick and tell him, no, I like, I was like on a rock.
I'm like walking and huffing and puffing and I'm voice texting into my voice, you know, translating into my email and send him this message. I'm like, I'm
just listening to this. This was so cool. I'd love to connect with your guests and I'd love to reconnect with you. Potentially have you on my show if you're up for it.
And you broke back and said, yeah. And, and the subject line was dog poop with a smiley face. So we've come full circle.
Nick: just recycle the same old thread.
Dustin: Um, yeah, I love it. So, uh, you've been extremely generous with your time, Nick. I think those are amazing insights for people that are thinking about being a great guest and, all the things you've shared about side hustling and these mindsets around experimentation and not taking for granted that downloads are people, the value in that.
What parting thoughts or, calls to action or next steps would you like to direct people to if they want to know more about you and what you guys are up to a side hustle nation?
Nick: Yeah, of course. I mean, Dustin, thanks so much for having me. It's always [00:51:00] great to catch up and hear about all these different projects that you and the kids are working on. Like it's, it's, it's exciting. the side hustle show, you'll find it in all your podcast apps. Would love to have you tune in, give it a shot.
Like we talked about, there's over 600 episodes, so if you prefer a more curated approach, you can go to hustle. show, answer a few short multiple choice questions, you do it on your phone, it'll build you a personalized playlist of the episodes based on your answers, it thinks it's going to be, you it thinks will be most most helpful for you, so you can add those to your device, you can learn what works, you can go make some more money,
Dustin: I love that. That's really cool. Hustle dot show. I will literally go do that myself
Nick: all right.
Dustin: as you're like going back to some of these like archives, they're popping up in my mind. I'm like, these were key interviews in my entrepreneurial journey. And so, hustle dot show, go listen to the side hustle show on your podcast player of choice.
again, Nick, super grateful for our friendship, for, your articulate way of sharing so much, Knowledge bombs here. That's been great. So, and if people are inspired [00:52:00] by this and you're like, Hey, this whole podcasting thing, seems like something I should be plugged into. And you want to know how to be a great guest and get very systematic, proven, help with that.
That's what I do. So podcast profits accelerator is our flagship program. And it's really the art and science of how to be a great guest and grow your business in a big way with it. So you can get details on that at seven figure leap. com right there. You can book a call, talk to someone on our team and see how this could work for you.
So thanks again, Nick, super grateful for you and hope to see you here or see you on your show sometime in the future.
Nick: All right, cheers.